Best way to stop a manual?
#11
05-28-2010, 11:35 AM
Ahh, missed the part where he said he's learning to drive it.
I'd argue that, yes, it's undue wear and tear on the synchros, but no more wear than any other shift would be. Realistically, the extra shifting isn't going to cause them to fail any earlier. If you really want to talk synchro damage, let's talk about grinding gears
And since the OP is new to driving manual transmissions, I'm going to clear this up since he's probably confused:
a heel-toe shift would be when you brake and downshift at the same time. The toes on your right foot are pressing the brake pedal down, and while clutching, you swing your heel up and tap the gas pedal to raise the engine speed up enough to smoothly downshift. It's used during racing to maintain traction entering/during a turn, since a rough, abrupt downshift could push the tires outside their friction envelope. On the street, it's mainly used for a smoother downshift while braking (unless you're doing some "spirited driving", in which case it's used for the same thing as racing).
(and as a side note, 36 in an AP1/AP2 isn't too shabby. I've seen 31.5 in the mustang, which I think is pretty darn good for a modified mustang )
I'd argue that, yes, it's undue wear and tear on the synchros, but no more wear than any other shift would be. Realistically, the extra shifting isn't going to cause them to fail any earlier. If you really want to talk synchro damage, let's talk about grinding gears
And since the OP is new to driving manual transmissions, I'm going to clear this up since he's probably confused:
a heel-toe shift would be when you brake and downshift at the same time. The toes on your right foot are pressing the brake pedal down, and while clutching, you swing your heel up and tap the gas pedal to raise the engine speed up enough to smoothly downshift. It's used during racing to maintain traction entering/during a turn, since a rough, abrupt downshift could push the tires outside their friction envelope. On the street, it's mainly used for a smoother downshift while braking (unless you're doing some "spirited driving", in which case it's used for the same thing as racing).
(and as a side note, 36 in an AP1/AP2 isn't too shabby. I've seen 31.5 in the mustang, which I think is pretty darn good for a modified mustang
)i completely agree
btw, is there no way to make something bold, i was just going to bold the point i wanted to quote but didn't see the option?
#12
05-28-2010, 11:44 AM
Either hit the Bold button (the B above the text box) or use the html tags [b] (bold text here) [/b ] (without the extra spaces in the box with the /b).
#13
05-28-2010, 11:47 AM
i don't see the bold button in quick reply or advanced reply.
but it works right the other way that is
edit: sorry for off topic
but it works right the other way that is
edit: sorry for off topic
#14
05-28-2010, 11:57 AM
This button right hurr:
*edit: actually, it might depend on your account settings. Lemme check into it.
*edit: actually, it might depend on your account settings. Lemme check into it.
#16
05-28-2010, 12:04 PM
Try it now. The buttons should show up now; it's a setting in your profile that you turned off when you joined.
#18
05-28-2010, 02:11 PM
Ahh, missed the part where he said he's learning to drive it.
a heel-toe shift would be when you brake and downshift at the same time. The toes on your right foot are pressing the brake pedal down, and while clutching, you swing your heel up and tap the gas pedal to raise the engine speed up enough to smoothly downshift. It's used during racing to maintain traction entering/during a turn, since a rough, abrupt downshift could push the tires outside their friction envelope. On the street, it's mainly used for a smoother downshift while braking (unless you're doing some "spirited driving", in which case it's used for the same thing as racing).
(and as a side note, 36 in an AP1/AP2 isn't too shabby. I've seen 31.5 in the mustang, which I think is pretty darn good for a modified mustang )
a heel-toe shift would be when you brake and downshift at the same time. The toes on your right foot are pressing the brake pedal down, and while clutching, you swing your heel up and tap the gas pedal to raise the engine speed up enough to smoothly downshift. It's used during racing to maintain traction entering/during a turn, since a rough, abrupt downshift could push the tires outside their friction envelope. On the street, it's mainly used for a smoother downshift while braking (unless you're doing some "spirited driving", in which case it's used for the same thing as racing).
(and as a side note, 36 in an AP1/AP2 isn't too shabby. I've seen 31.5 in the mustang, which I think is pretty darn good for a modified mustang
)
#19
05-30-2010, 11:37 AM
what happens when we throw a hydro clutch into the mix? im on my first stick and i get really good mileage but i use neutral rolls to stop lights all the time, i almost never downshift, unless i wanna pass or somethin of course. but thats really interesting about leaving it in gear, idk i never would have thought of that. and how the hell is someone supposed to double clutch while heel and toe?? sry i caught that somewhere and i just pictured myself hitting the brakes waaaaay too hard (ive been working on single toe and heel and thats my problem so far) while spinning the front tires til smoking occurs lol. my newbie driving style seems to be very "jerky" atbest also while upshifting, ive gotten A LOT better since ive got the civie but its still not as smooth as id like. i wish i could explain better but yea id appreatiate some tips!
(edit- its a 2000 honda civic ex coupe if that matters V.V)
(edit- its a 2000 honda civic ex coupe if that matters V.V)
#20
05-30-2010, 11:50 AM
hydro clutch makes no difference, same theory applies to all manuals. trust me, you will be better gas mileage by staying in gear. don't downshift unless you expect to never actually stop the car, like going into a right turn or you expect the light to turn green before you get there.
i'll say it right now, double clutch has no benefit for our modern cars so there's really no point in learning it.
but if you do want to, you should start learning how to double clutch and rev match at a constant speed first and downshift. say you're cruising at 40 mph in fourth gear at 3k rpm. what you do to double clutch revmatch downshift is to clutch in and get out of gear. clutch out and blip the gas to raise the rpm to like 4k or whatever, and then clutch in and go into third gear and clutch out. if you do it properly there should no "jerk" at all.
now practice heal and toe. when you're heading into a right turn, stay in gear and start hitting the brakes. when you're almost to the corner, clutch in while still braking and blip the throttle with your heel and throw the shifter in a lower gear. now clutch out and if you do it properly the braking decelerating force should be constant and have no "jerk". the goal is to be in the lower gear BEFORE you start turning and not disrupt the momentum of the vehicle.
now for double clutch heel toe downshifting. what i do is start braking. then while continuing to brake, clutch in and shift into neutral. then i clutch out and blip the gas and clutch back in and shift into the lower gear; and remember this is all done right before i start turning so i enter the corner in gear ready to accelerate out of the corner. again, if you do this properly there should be no change in deceleration during your braking.
also, during any one of these techniques, i explained it in step by step fashion, but in reality there is a lot of overlap between each step. for example, when i clutch in and out and back in and out to perform a double clutch revmatch, i really don't stop in the middle after i clutch out to hit the gas, i'm basically blipping the throttle while i'm releasing the clutch and i instantly clutch in again. keep that in mind since you will need to overlap in order to get the timing properly, unless your car changes rpm really slowly and you have a lot of time between downshifting
i will repeat, double clutching does not benefit the transmission or speed of the vehicle in anyways, but it's fun to do if you'd like to learn it since it doesn't hurt anything
i'll say it right now, double clutch has no benefit for our modern cars so there's really no point in learning it.
but if you do want to, you should start learning how to double clutch and rev match at a constant speed first and downshift. say you're cruising at 40 mph in fourth gear at 3k rpm. what you do to double clutch revmatch downshift is to clutch in and get out of gear. clutch out and blip the gas to raise the rpm to like 4k or whatever, and then clutch in and go into third gear and clutch out. if you do it properly there should no "jerk" at all.
now practice heal and toe. when you're heading into a right turn, stay in gear and start hitting the brakes. when you're almost to the corner, clutch in while still braking and blip the throttle with your heel and throw the shifter in a lower gear. now clutch out and if you do it properly the braking decelerating force should be constant and have no "jerk". the goal is to be in the lower gear BEFORE you start turning and not disrupt the momentum of the vehicle.
now for double clutch heel toe downshifting. what i do is start braking. then while continuing to brake, clutch in and shift into neutral. then i clutch out and blip the gas and clutch back in and shift into the lower gear; and remember this is all done right before i start turning so i enter the corner in gear ready to accelerate out of the corner. again, if you do this properly there should be no change in deceleration during your braking.
also, during any one of these techniques, i explained it in step by step fashion, but in reality there is a lot of overlap between each step. for example, when i clutch in and out and back in and out to perform a double clutch revmatch, i really don't stop in the middle after i clutch out to hit the gas, i'm basically blipping the throttle while i'm releasing the clutch and i instantly clutch in again. keep that in mind since you will need to overlap in order to get the timing properly, unless your car changes rpm really slowly and you have a lot of time between downshifting
i will repeat, double clutching does not benefit the transmission or speed of the vehicle in anyways, but it's fun to do if you'd like to learn it since it doesn't hurt anything
Last edited by theblackpearl; 05-30-2010 at 11:53 AM.