which one would be better for a 2dr 95 ex? cuz the B16b redlines higher but the B18c has more torque?

Man, everybody is asking this lately. Did everybody win the lottery or something?

Torque = Go.

But, if you want my opinion... Be different, Rock the D.

Be different, swap a 1.3 escort motor in...J/K...

If I could I would get the B18C1...or a B20...

well i heard that the b20 is rarely used, but what combinations can you do with it, or even to make it v-tech?

or even to make it v-tech?
Sad.

Get a b18c5 if you have the funds orjust turbo your current engine if it's like an EX.

sad?
what do you mean sad?
b20s suck, the last time i heard!!

He means sad because it's not v-tech with an "h" it's vtec as in Variable Valve and lift with Electronic Control.

I have been reading that the B20 bottom and B16 or B18 head is getting really popular.

really, how the hell would the compression ration work with that,
more horsepower and more torque?

i remember i was going to get a b20 for my car, but i dont know what the combinations i can do to it.
i know it has alot of torque but no horsepower

b18 > b16

b18>b16?
what does that mean
i dont want to sound stupid
but for real, let me know

> it greater than. we learned that in elementary school.

i know that but i didnt wembur
n e ways, couldnt you take a b20 and put a gsr head on it and make it haul ass?![>:]

ORIGINAL: gili_91hatch

really, how the hell would the compression ration work with that,
more horsepower and more torque?




http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/compcalc/compcalc.php

Some of the fastest hondas out there have a B20 with a VTEC head. If you want to stay N/A and had the money, a b20 with a ITR head is the best combo in my mind. But if you want a turbo, a non-VTEC b20 has a much more natural powerband and is easier to tune.

Don't put a VTEC head on anything but a VTEC motor unless Spoon, Mugen, TODA, or Skunk2 is doing the work for you. IT WILL FAIL in the long run, for one or more of these reasons

1) You take it to the head's redline every time you shift.
2) You blow a hole in one of the B20's thin-ass cylinders
3) The cams burn up from lack of oil pressure (which also means no VTEC for you. Ever).
4) You throw a rod because of the not-so-balanced bottom end.
5) One or more of the cylinders sinks.
6) You put a turbo on it (which will most likely cause at least 3 of the above).

Bottom line: if you're not a mechanic and you don't already KNOW how to do an LS- or CR-VTEC, DON'T DO IT.

yeah you dont wanna boost a B20. ever. unless you bore it. and sleeve it.

thin walls + long stroke/bore ratio + boost = :'(



B18C1 (torque) with a B16A head (factory port&polish + lower comp). low comp pistons. ARP headstuds. Boost at 8psi. good for low 13s-high 12s.

Yeah...B20 must be sleeved...and you must balance the hell out of it...but it'll have an a$$ load of torque

b16b vs. b18c (type r's)
since i found a thread on this already i didnt wanna start a new one.
there are so many things you can do to a honda civic. and ive decided i wanna stay NA.

i hear if goin NA, then the itr motor is the way to go. but i wanna know a little more about the ctr motor. does the itr motor beat it out in every way?

for me, i would love the fact that i could tell people i have a b16b. i know people say b16's are waay over-rated, and the b16b is way more than it is worth. but something is pullin me towards it. im not lookin to be the fastest guy in the world. thats why i decided on stayin NA, that plus i wont have to go through the hassle of everything dealing with forced induction. (prepping block, tuning, buying the parts, installing, etc..)

b16b is a gsr block and a type r head, it is destroked and uses longer connecting rod to have a better rod to stroke ratio which lowers the piston speed and makes it able to run at higher rpm with more reliablility.

go with a gsr block, put a b16 head on it with a ctr intake cam and a itr exhaust cam and you have an itr engine for probably 2000 bucks less, heck you don't even need the b16 head it just raises the compression a little bit, the cams and valvetrain would be fine in a gsr head.

thread from the dead

ORIGINAL: Kappa22

Don't put a VTEC head on anything but a VTEC motor unless Spoon, Mugen, TODA, or Skunk2 is doing the work for you. IT WILL FAIL in the long run, for one or more of these reasons

1) You take it to the head's redline every time you shift.
2) You blow a hole in one of the B20's thin-ass cylinders
3) The cams burn up from lack of oil pressure (which also means no VTEC for you. Ever).
4) You throw a rod because of the not-so-balanced bottom end.
5) One or more of the cylinders sinks.
6) You put a turbo on it (which will most likely cause at least 3 of the above).

Bottom line: if you're not a mechanic and you don't already KNOW how to do an LS- or CR-VTEC, DON'T DO IT.




ORIGINAL: Nail I3unny

yeah you dont wanna boost a B20. ever. unless you bore it. and sleeve it.

thin walls + long stroke/bore ratio + boost = :'(





Sorry but both of these statements are false and I just wanted to note that for anyone reading this thread

as you can see there are tons of options available, what are your goals, NA or boost? How much wheel hp? dd? let us know so we can narrow it down for ya!!

ORIGINAL: Kappa22

Don't put a VTEC head on anything but a VTEC motor unless Spoon, Mugen, TODA, or Skunk2 is doing the work for you. IT WILL FAIL in the long run, for one or more of these reasons

1) You take it to the head's redline every time you shift.
2) You blow a hole in one of the B20's thin-ass cylinders
3) The cams burn up from lack of oil pressure (which also means no VTEC for you. Ever).
4) You throw a rod because of the not-so-balanced bottom end.
5) One or more of the cylinders sinks.
6) You put a turbo on it (which will most likely cause at least 3 of the above).

Bottom line: if you're not a mechanic and you don't already KNOW how to do an LS- or CR-VTEC, DON'T DO IT.


you can put a VTEC head on a non vtec block. it's called the LS VTEC conversion and they have several different kits for it.

actually, it's quite common AND reliable. integra owners do it all the time...

the only thing you really have to do is swap the head, and then set up the VTEC actuation system (basically tapping the head and hooking up a hydraulic line that lets the oil system actuate the VTEC bits in the head).

you'll also need to get a new ECU to manage the new VTEC capabilities, but that's a given.

for a better swap, use the timing belt and water pump combo off the B18C1 engine you got the head off of.

have no fear. just dooooo eeeeeet.

^^ but what kappa was saying is that its not as reliable as a factory engine w/ vtec. and most people that do it don't do it right so they blow up and wonder why.

a b18 or b20 bottom is only good to about 7000rpm even with the vtec head, because of the longer stroke and it not being designed for high rpm

dood. do you really think companies would continue to build ls-vtec conversion kits if they weren't dependable???

yes because they are a cheap way to make money.

go post your theory at www.team-integra.net and get laughed at...

its not a theory, its truth. an integra non vtec bottom end is not meant to, nor capable of withstanding higher than stock rpm for long periods of time of going there often, they are built for economy and more torque that is why the have the longer stroke.

can an ls vtec be reliable? yes it can and will last for many years if its done right and driven properly.

revving it to 9000 rpm because you have toda cams in the head is gonna kill it just as fast as running 87 octane gas in you turbo d.

It may be "dependable" but thats if its done 100% correctly. Kappa simply stated that you shouldnt do it if you dont know what youre doing.

Even so, a factory Vtec motor is what you want for 110% reliability.

if you don't know what your doing then you shouldn't be swapping with a factory vtec block either...

swapping an enigne is pretty much remover and replae with minor mods to get it in and wiring.

building an engine is a whole other story, you need to get clearences, torque bolts to proper specs, special tools to instal parts. its a precision thing and screwing up is easy to do. thats why i never did a mini me to my civic, i just swapped the whole engine. took me 2 days start to finish and was well worth it. got in and started up like honda intended. no need to worry about what timing belt or waterpump to use, and if you got the right one.

woohoo. i think you're ready to graduate to prefab engine swap kits.

in other words LSVTEC conversions...

ORIGINAL: ef4life

yes because they are a cheap way to make money.


you honestly thinik they make conversion kits just to scam people out of money nad blow their engines? If this was true, why would they keep selling after the 10th one messed up?

lol.

ORIGINAL: FlipHKD720


ORIGINAL: ef4life

yes because they are a cheap way to make money.


you honestly thinik they make conversion kits just to scam people out of money nad blow their engines? If this was true, why would they keep selling after the 10th one messed up?

no the kit works fine, its just the end users who **** them up. so it is a cheap way for a company to make money, not saying there product is inferior. oh and ebay chips? do they add power? or what companies keep making them and people blow ther motors. just because a company makes something doesn't mean its a good quality product. a few more come to mind like the tornado, and ssautochrome.

you can add arp rod bolts and fix the ls/b20 bottom end weakness but their power even with a vtec head will drop off around 7400rpm in stock form.

man.. maybe i shoulda jus started a new thread? we should change the title on this one to ls/cr-vtec conversion. [sm=tongue.gif]
well like aryiman said. i did bring this thread back from the dead. if you go back to the first page, you can see it was started over a year ago.

im not tryin to be an ass but i wanna ask again,

ORIGINAL: GetItBoy

b16b vs. b18c (type r's)
since i found a thread on this already i didnt wanna start a new one.
there are so many things you can do to a honda civic. and ive decided i wanna stay NA.

i hear if goin NA, then the itr motor is the way to go. but i wanna know a little more about the ctr motor. does the itr motor beat it out in every way?

for me, i would love the fact that i could tell people i have a b16b. i know people say b16's are waay over-rated, and the b16b is way more than it is worth. but something is pullin me towards it. im not lookin to be the fastest guy in the world. thats why i decided on stayin NA, that plus i wont have to go through the hassle of everything dealing with forced induction. (prepping block, tuning, buying the parts, installing, etc..)

the itr has more power and torque du to its larger displacement. but the ctr engine revs higher due to the longer rods givig it the better rod to stroke ratio making it high rpm stable.

if you are just going to swap an engine in an leave it stock an itr would be the best bet, more power and torque, but if you decide to build it internally a gsr engine would be the best bet because its about 2-3 grand cheaper than the type r

IMO bang for the buck the H22 is better than both

ORIGINAL: GetItBoy

b16b vs. b18c (type r's)
since i found a thread on this already i didnt wanna start a new one.
there are so many things you can do to a honda civic. and ive decided i wanna stay NA.

i hear if goin NA, then the itr motor is the way to go. but i wanna know a little more about the ctr motor. does the itr motor beat it out in every way?

for me, i would love the fact that i could tell people i have a b16b. i know people say b16's are waay over-rated, and the b16b is way more than it is worth. but something is pullin me towards it. im not lookin to be the fastest guy in the world. thats why i decided on stayin NA, that plus i wont have to go through the hassle of everything dealing with forced induction. (prepping block, tuning, buying the parts, installing, etc..)


ORIGINAL: sacicons

B18c1- great torque, great HP. good all-around motor. takes to mods very well. compared to the b16, its everything the 1.6 isnt. good throttle response, good low end torque. high compression though. keep boost low. even with low boost, some impressive numbers should be possible. has different cylinder head design than the other b-series vtecs. has dual runner intake system, which switchs runner length with rpm. wasnt as great as everyone thought it would be. has higher compression than other B-heads, due to large quench pads in combution chamber. these also help fend off detonation, but that might be too advanced for this post, so ill leave it at that. only drawback is cost. swaps go for about 50% more than a b16 swap.

B16b-better torque than b16a, but still nothing substantial. crazy top-end power. probably the craziest 1.6 in any production car. too expensive to justify, unless you are building a type r replica, and are looking to get some credit for that. its a great motor for NA, insane compression, way too high for boost, i know its possible, but why? you can do better for less money. can run 2-2.5 times the cost of a B16a swap. for the money, go with a gsr. the only thing a CTR motor (civic type r) has over gsr, is a little hp, and a lot of bling. comes with lsd trans.

B18c5- the Holy Grail of the Bs. good low end torque, great high end power. compression is too high for much boost. a beast in a lightweight civic. good for NA drag racing and auto-cross. comes with lsd trans. way too expensive for most people. if you get one for a good price, take it. can run 2.5-3 times the price of a B16a2 swap. most parts are interchangeable with other motors, allowing for some crazy combos.

from this thread: http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_10612/tm.htm