RE: raced a srt4
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RE: raced a srt4 - 1/25/2006 5:36:57 AM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
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Well you will be right at $17,000 and have a 6+ year old car with no warrenty and still barely be able to beat a stock SRT-4 that can be had for $12k to $18k, not to mention that you get stupid gains hp wise with the littlest mods to a srt4. As far as looks go that is a cop out, alot of people think civic's are ugly as sin and nothing more than a way to get a good value when you drive up to the gas pumps. That is all personal opinion and plays absolutly no role into a cars abilities or take away from what it does. The SRT-4 is like the red headed step child of the import scene. People all to soon forget(alot here are to young to know of or remember) the old school K cars Dodge brought out in the 80's, also the Shelby Daytona's, and Conquest(Starions). Dodge has it's history with turbo'd 4 bangers that smash on cars that are supposed to be better. Dodge was pushing Conquest out the door before the STi was ever thought of, the EVO's were in their infancy, and competing with a Z car from Nissan that in my and a very large group of tuners minds is alot better than the 350Z(TT 300ZX)
This is not about a company just throwing something out there folks. This car was overbuilt for the fact that they did not take the time to save money by shaving rods thinner, or skimming on parts which is alot of the reason they stopped selling it because they simply were not making any money on it. This is a company that is starting to be well known for doing this anymore with the AWD 425hp 300C SRT8, the SRT Magnum, SRT8 Jeep, and others are on there way. Dodge has dugg it's way from a run of the mill, nobody cares what they bring out company to a now Powerhouse and they owe alot of it to this car.
That brings me to another point, you simply do not dig your company up from a nothing back to a something on a car that is unreliable, a bad value, or tarnishes the nameplate of the company in any way what so ever.
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RE: raced a srt4 - 1/25/2006 8:07:19 AM
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97civicturbo
Posts: 625
Joined: 4/4/2005
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Hmmm.....I'm going to have to say I don't agree with you on that one. Barely beat an srt-4? I'll be running mid to low 12's on street tires. That's a full 1.5 second ahead of an Srt-4. My engine doesn't have a warranty, that's correct. BUT, it has 0 miles and is built far beyond the specifications of a stock honda engine which in my opinion says alot. Honda is honda for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means saying that a modded civic won't have its issues, and if something DOES go wrong I can't take it to the dealer. Thing is, dealers over price their labor and I wouldn't go there anyways unless it was under full warranty. And its not like I have to boost 20 lbs when daily driving, with the push of a button this car can go from a 10 psi 13.5 second car to a 20+ psi car to give big blocks a run for their money. To get the SRT-4 to the point of my civic I would have to spend another 5-7k. So when comparing 25k to 17k I could build my engine two more times and still be saving money without the RISK of driving a car that is new to the market(meaning reliable as they may have been so far) there is no real history to back up the cars value. There's a reason a 2005 SRT-4 is only worth 14k in EXCELLENT condition. And that's KBB always overpriced. Another thing, so you're saying dodge didn't make money on them?? I'm not going to go into the older dodge cars you mentioned, I don't know enough about them, but from the looks of things, 20 years later, dodge still cannot come out with a car that takes them where they want to go. The entire line of dodge passenger vehicles is crap. As far as this goes "As far as looks go that is a cop out, alot of people think civic's are ugly as sin and nothing more than a way to get a good value when you drive up to the gas pumps." Please, really? You're telling me that people who buy civics ONLY get them because they are good at the pump. I think the only cop out is trying to justify that the SRT-4 looks like crud but its okay because its turbo'd and runs good 1/4 mile times from the factory. 90+% of people who buy cars don't buy them because of the 1/4 mile time. Dodge should have balled up and made the car that looked better, came with better options(power windows, better looking interior), and charged a price that people said "you know what, that car is sick and I'll spend 28k on it.) Instead they have a car that everyone says "well it looks like crud, but hey its fast and only costs 20k, so its okay." Can you deny that? I think not. I don't give the car any more credit than it deserves, I call it for what it is plain and simple.
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RE: raced a srt4 - 1/25/2006 3:15:54 PM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
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It will not take no $70k to get a SRT-4 to mid to low 12's for one, second 90% of the 05 SRT-4's still go for $17k to $20k, third yes I am saying that 95% of civic's are bought from the dealer new for the gas milage buy women in the 30+ year old range. The car did what it was ment to do, sure it was plain but nobody jumps on Nissans ass for a plain stripped 350Z labled a "Track Edition" that goes for $28k+ or a STi that dont even come with a radio w/o the option being added and payed for. If you want power windows and all that stupid crap you are not to concerned with actually being fast is my opinion. I have had 3 civic's and boosted all 3. The first thing I did with every one of the was yank the A/C, power steering, and cut down on all un-needed bs. Simply because I dont need it and it stands in the way of what I wanted to do.
If you ever drove a SRT-4 you would understand, the seats are super supportive, it turns great for a car that people are so hard on and say cant handle good, it has great power everywhere in the rev range(I know it's turbo'd but cars like a EVO are pathetic on the low end of the rpm range), it has a nice informative yet not over done layout. Look I am not trying to get everybody to run out and buy one but it demands respect for what it has done regaurdless of what company made it. If more companies would do this at this price range it would do wonders for the auto industry. There is absolutly no point in pricing cars like the RSX in the mid $20,000 range, the EVO/STi for all their glory are still 4 banger 4 door econo cars and dont belong in the low $30k range.
Dodge did it right, trimming all the bs out that a real tuner does not mind going without, the first thing that comes to my mind when buying a car to pull 12's, 11's, 10's is not "does it have power windows" it is "will it hold up" well the SRT-4's engine is good in stock form for the 450 to 480whp area reliably. The cars have been out sense 03 and no cases of lemons have surfaced like everyone said would and many, many, many of these cars are beat to hell, modded, then sold to another person who does the same thing.
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If you are over 18 years old in the United States and do not vote do not bitch about local, state, and national laws. This includes fix it tickets, big speeding fines, and high taxes(gas prices included)
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RE: raced a srt4 - 1/25/2006 11:03:37 PM
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97civicturbo
Posts: 625
Joined: 4/4/2005
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some good points for sure, but who said anything about 70k? If people are paying 17-18k for 05 used stock srt's they are overpaying.
The market price is 14500 in excellent condition with avg miles, unless of course you are buying it from a dealer, then of course you are paying the extra 2k they bump it up to. But IMO anyone buying a used car from a dealer isn't making a good buying decision unless they have poor credit. IMO a car has to have a good balance between power, drivability, looks, and options. A all go and no show car is just as bad to me as an all show and no go. If you want to use that a tuner doesn't need the looks and options aspect, why pay 20k for an srt-4? Warranty? Answer is no, most dealerships, ESPECIALLY in the last two years because of drop in sales volume, will not honor warranties that are caused from abuse or misuse. Warranties are voided when they are "beat to hell" as you put. Lastly the reason other car companies aren't making cars like the srt-4 are for the same reason you stated in your post before last, "they simply were not making any money on it." The SRT-4's have been out for about 2 1/2 years, which is not even close to long enough to state they are reliable like a honda. The SRT is what it is, a value based HP car for people who can't afford anything more.
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RE: raced a srt4 - 1/26/2006 6:19:44 AM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
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I ment $7,000, it will take nowhere near that to put a SRT4 into the 11's.
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If you are over 18 years old in the United States and do not vote do not bitch about local, state, and national laws. This includes fix it tickets, big speeding fines, and high taxes(gas prices included)
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RE: raced a srt4 - 1/26/2006 12:53:55 PM
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97civicturbo
Posts: 625
Joined: 4/4/2005
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sorry that 7k included mods to visually upgrade the car as well.
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RE: raced a srt4 - 1/26/2006 2:18:26 PM
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Honda_man
Posts: 612
Joined: 9/1/2005
From: Columbia, Missouri
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quote:
ORIGINAL: md420
Well you will be right at $17,000 and have a 6+ year old car with no warrenty and still barely be able to beat a stock SRT-4 that can be had for $12k to $18k, not to mention that you get stupid gains hp wise with the littlest mods to a srt4. As far as looks go that is a cop out, alot of people think civic's are ugly as sin and nothing more than a way to get a good value when you drive up to the gas pumps.
isnt' that what neons were before the srt-4? isn't that, in some ppls opinions, what all 4 cylinders are for? the neon has a bad name as far as reliability, and THATS the reason for the name change (AKA the ugly ass calibur P.O.S.).....
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f/s-85 Ford Bronco
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RE: raced a srt4 - 1/26/2006 3:13:53 PM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 97civicturbo
sorry that 7k included mods to visually upgrade the car as well.
I am not talking about mods to the outside of the car, see I know it is your opinion as far as having a car that looks decent and goes fast is a must but it is not like that for alot of others. I for one dont care to much about looks simply because it is not as important to me. There are alot of others I know like this but I have had my feet planted in racing/the racing scene foe around 10 to 12 years. Not the racing/show scene the race scene.
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If you are over 18 years old in the United States and do not vote do not bitch about local, state, and national laws. This includes fix it tickets, big speeding fines, and high taxes(gas prices included)
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RE: raced a srt4 - 1/26/2006 3:15:49 PM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Honda_man
quote:
ORIGINAL: md420
Well you will be right at $17,000 and have a 6+ year old car with no warrenty and still barely be able to beat a stock SRT-4 that can be had for $12k to $18k, not to mention that you get stupid gains hp wise with the littlest mods to a srt4. As far as looks go that is a cop out, alot of people think civic's are ugly as sin and nothing more than a way to get a good value when you drive up to the gas pumps.
isnt' that what neons were before the srt-4? isn't that, in some ppls opinions, what all 4 cylinders are for? the neon has a bad name as far as reliability, and THATS the reason for the name change (AKA the ugly ass calibur P.O.S.).....
The reason for the namechange is because it is a chassis change. BTW the NEON had it's problems early in production but they were fixed and the car has became a very good platform for auto-x and road courses.
_____________________________
If you are over 18 years old in the United States and do not vote do not bitch about local, state, and national laws. This includes fix it tickets, big speeding fines, and high taxes(gas prices included)
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