hi everyone, this is Coop's girlfriend, i'm using his name because i don't have one, and he's at Army Boot Cmp, and i need answers.
i was wondering if i should boost my Z6 and go with that, or to swap with a b16a, and to dress up that with the exterior and stuff. what would be better in the long run?? sorry if this seems like a "newb/noob" question, i'm still new at this stuff. thanx guys

p.s. i have a 95 civic ex coupe, nothing really going on engine wise but an aem sir.

Depends on your budget, and who would be installing the motor/turbo.

if turbo, coop and one of his friends, if motor, then a acura/honda spec company in nashville.

Then go turbo as it will be much cheaper, and you could get more power from a turbod SOHC than a stock B16. HEd save a decent amount of $ by installing his own turbo as opposed to haveing a shop do a motorswap.,

plus it will beat a stock b16.

I'd say it depends on your goals, willingness to spend money

but the b16 would probably last longer if it was kept relatively stock with just minor bolt ons

possibly, i mean i drive my car every single day, but its not like its constantly in boost. The tune has a lot to do with it.

The driver has alot to do with it also, even a honda engine will fail when it is beat on all the time no matter how good a setup or tune is.

can you give an example. this is an interesting subject:eek:

Get a honda D16Z6 engine, boost it, get it tuned. Say youre layin down 225WHP on 10 PSI.....and every time you drive it your are just redlining it, or just going into full boost every minute you drive it.......it will break quicker.


Take a stock honda motor, beat it daily and it will break quicker too.

wwell i figured that. md made it sound like there is something i might not know.

I will say this and it may piss people off but IMHO the B16 is the most overrated swap in the history of swaps. You pay anywhere from $1500 to $2700 depending on the generation and you get around 25 to 35whp at most. Using the cheapest swap and the most hp you get around 1hp for every $42 you spend and your still stuck with no tq as the B16's only have like 5 more ft lbs of tq than the D16's.

To put this into perspective with a H22 swap you get around 1hp for every $25 you spend and with a d series turbo setup you get like 1hp per every $15 you spend.

thats true about the tourqe. i drove a guys crx with a b16 in there and my car could get a good headstart on it before it blew the doors off my car.

yeah b16s are overrated, you can put that 2-3k into a d and have a ton more power than the stock b16 for the same or less amount of money

haha, this is a lot of great info:D, i figure it would be cheaper to boost the d, and i always wanted to sport that intercooler look, not to many of those around here. keep all the great points coming guys, i'm still on the line between the two here.

p.s. looking to spend about 2k, no more then 2300, i'm hoping.

let me see if i can find you a good intake and header...



jk:D

2k should be able to do it with a tune

ORIGINAL: md420

I will say this and it may piss people off but IMHO the B16 is the most overrated swap in the history of swaps.

+6

the only thing the B16 has over the H22 is weight and aftermarket. B18C1 is about as perfect of a balance you can get for aftermarket, stock power, tunability, and weight.

The thing about the weight is more myth and people going on he said she said crap. A B series swap is only like 40 to 55lbs lighter than a H22 swap. The big problem or atleast used to be the big problem is the way the engine leaned foward in the engine bay making the weight hang in front of the front wheels rather than directly on top or slightly behinde them so it would throw the balance off. Also with it sitting like that it had a tendency to snap axels stock or aftermarket when launching hard. Well all that has been fixed because the EG and EK mounts for a H22 swap have been redone because of this, the swap at first did not get alot of fan fair over this and the bad things that used to happen stuck with it even though the problems were fixed.

The H22 in stock form will throw around 165 to 170whp and around 135 ft lbs of tq to the wheels bone stock. That my freinds is very good power for the money, your talking ITR hp with tq that a ITR swap could only dream of in strock form for far cheaper. A note to anyone wanting to do this swap there is a couple other things that should be known. When doing this swap you also need a prelude shifter assembly and you need to make 2 holes in the lower firewall to accept the cables in order to shift. It's not that big of a deal though really. Also another side note is that if you plan to supercharge it with a JRSC you will need to physicly beat the upper firewall to be able to fit it in there. Lets knock this one out of there too........you can fit a turbo setup under the hood with no problem on a H22 swapped civic.

http://www.lenon.com/images/h22eg_install.jpg

That is a H22 swapped EK, now honestly does it look any more cramped than a B series EK?

If you stick with the D you'll no doubt get a shed load of power for a lot less than the b16, but to be perfectly honest, the D's arn't that great. They dont rev as well and simply dont sound as exciting. If your boosting them both i doubt you'd get any more power out of one or the other, but the b16 would still be screaming round at 8000rpm. A b18 is probably the best bet, at least your getting something resembling torque!

the B16 IS way over rated.

Do you still lose power steering with the H swap md?

Well I think you can but I have done the swap 2 times and both times it was left off. That is like the first thing I do to any civic I get is take the ps off because I simply like the way ir drives alot better without it.

most of the space taken up by an H22 is down low by the tranny. try changing the clutch on an H22 when its in a civic. not a fun time. :)

but you're right. it doesnt look that much more crowded...a little bit on the left (when looking at the engine bay)
http://www.impulsiveillusions.net/illusions/illusions/John/engine.jpg

personally, i would buy a b18c1 form a gsr and throw in some cams. great all motor power there. i am looking into buying a 92-95 civic coupe, and those were my exact plans. besides headers, pulley sets, and intake. its your best bet with the b18.

ORIGINAL: md420

That is a H22 swapped EK, now honestly does it look any more cramped than a B series EK?



Are you sure that's not an EG?

The images source is:

http://www.lenon.com/images/h22eg_install.jpg

Either way, great looking install. Very clean.

My bad it is a eg but it makes no difference :)

engine bay wise EGs and EKs are about the same. except theres about 1 cubic foot extra in the EK on the right of the block by the timing belt and such

After reading all of the above, I think it's best to use a D if you're thinking of a turbo upgrade. I found a Greddy turbo, stage 3 on ebay for only £450! why is it so cheap??? ANy issues or problems with this one?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8037087002&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

That is not a greddy kit, the auction may say it iis but it aint. Greddy does not offer a t3/t4 kit for the d series and on top of that the turbo in the pics is not even a greddy unit.

it says Greddy-S...meaning greddy style. its not a greddy kit. a good greddy kit will cost you between 1500 and 2000 unless you happen upon a really good deal like pete did.

b16 and b18 swaps are very overrated. I had my b18 swap a while ago (my last car) and it was just a pain in the ass.

AS far as a daily driver with reliability... if you can go with a turbo setup and not be tempted to push your boost to the max then definately go the turbo route. 6-7 psi will give you really good power gains (about 160-170whp) on a D-series and still be very reliable.

^ thats why if I were to swap it would be a nice fat F20

F20 what?

I hope your not going to say a F20C because it aint happening

my buddy in Italy had an F-series in his Accord... that thing was a dog, slow as hell even with I/H/E

f20b if I am correct. What would a c be?

S2000

Are you talking of the Accord Euro R swap? 200hp and like 170tq?

http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_125405/mpage_1/key_f20/tm.htm#125405

:edit: And I think I've seen you hatin on the F swap in another thread md.

It is not worth it to swap in a sohc f series when there are plenty of dohc vtec f series and h series that will give so much better results for the money. I do not hate on any swap, if it is what you want and you have the means to do so then by all means more power to ya but I am here to give an objective point of veiw and that is what I do.

The F20B is DOHC VTEC. It uses cams from the JDM Prelude Type-S.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=641555

Gotcha some notes on the Euro-R and European version Accord Type-R as well.

:edit: And I was just messin with ya in that last post. ;)

It's cool, I just feel anymore that if there is a question as to my comments I go ahead and explain them. The F20B is more like a H22 than a F series.

I am being honest when I say this, if you ever planned on swapping a engine in and doing nother else to it then I suggest a H22/F20B

Thats what I want to do. I have read and scanned all over and found that the F20B is more boost friendly. Even though its a little less juice than the H22... I found the F20 in many cases to be cheaper. (I didnt know the s2k was the F20C)

ORIGINAL: md420
I am here to give an objective point of veiw and that is what I do.


Of course... you always have a stick up your ass. j.k



MD is our bouncer Mod of the forum. :D

i knew the S2000 didnt have a new series engine...but i didnt know it was an F. sweet.

f20c and the f22c = S2000

now that you say that i recall reading it somewhere.

IMO the s2000 should have become the s2200 after the change to 2.2l :p

That would get pretty confusing.

The F20 and 22C have nothing to do with any other F-series engines (or any other Honda engines, for that matter). They're longitudinally mounted, use timing chains, and turn clockwise.