RE: Killed a mustang!
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/12/2006 2:51:20 PM
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AllForSRT
Posts: 823
Joined: 3/25/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Patrick
my engine is running stock rods, crank and block, and although its 36 years old, im making around 360whp...that would put me around 465 at the crank...thats with pump gas and mufflers...
very good point, i guess this isnt considered good engineering either  lol jk
Good engineering doesnt need to be the most advanced, it just needs to be the most efficent and reliable, and still be cost effective (IMO) and the pushrod V8 while may not be a technoligical marvel, that has nothing to do with the engineering of these engines.
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Car List:
2006 Jeep GC SRT8
2004 Dodge SRT4
1999 Honda Civic DX coupe
"When you ask the SRT-4 to take you somewhere fast, it punches you in the face, throws you over its shoulder, and runs, screaming, so quickly that its tires can barely keep up.
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/12/2006 3:43:52 PM
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neon3kgt
Posts: 1023
Joined: 4/21/2005
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i would never put money into a GM engine with over 100k miles without first rebuilding it. but a honda engine with 100k can still take a good beating.
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/12/2006 4:24:36 PM
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Patrick
Posts: 4307
Joined: 10/9/2004
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i wouldnt put 5 cents into a GM engine...im not from the south...
seriously though. you should also compare cost of modding...i have well put together heads on my engine, and it puts out quite a bit of power on a stock stroke...lower than stock compression...
my 1984 dodge truck has over 200,000 miles in it. i havent changed the oil in 4 years (i really should get to that) and i only drive it in very bad conditions (ice and snow), yet it runs great...i could change the heads, torque convertor, gears, and intake manifold, and i can almost ensure you that it would run in the 14s...with over 200k on it...
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/12/2006 7:40:26 PM
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phoenix_gtr
Posts: 1000
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AllForSRT
quote:
ORIGINAL: BurryTheSpeedo
...but that doesnt mean it is engineered well, hell if making a engine 4656456546 ltrs is the only way you can get power, well then wow....but seriously with most domestic v6/v8's to get any reasonable amount of reliable power you have to replace rods, bolts, debur the block/head, align the bores, fix the retared flow issue with the head...is all this worth it??? no...
sure that all sounds good, but is it true? Nope not in the slightlest. Who said thats the only way you can get the power? Face it V8s are a staple of American culture thats just the way it is...
Name me one domestic performance V8 that you have to replace rods, bolts or do any internal work to make in or above 400hp. an LS1, LS2, 5.0, 4.6,5.4, 5.7hemi, 6.1 hemi, will all make over 400hp without having to do any internal work and still be driven everyday....you can complain about the engineering in the pushrod V8, but you cant knock its reliability which has stood the test of time and then some.
Name me ONE honda 4 cylinder motor that can take up to 500whp and still be driven everyday on stock internals. I can name 3 domestic motors that can do that off the cuff. the 03/04 Cobra V8, the 5.4 GT500 motor, and the 2.4 liter SRT4 engine....along with about a dozen motors made in the 60's and 70's.
You are comparing honda's I4 to 3 or 4 times more displacement V8s. That's not fair. For a little engine to make 500whp it's not that easy to do like V8. The srt4 engine is bulit for turbo, wait and see somebody make 500hp out of a K23A1. Oh and trucks are supposed to last forever.
< Message edited by phoenix_gtr -- 7/12/2006 7:54:36 PM >
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/12/2006 11:27:13 PM
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AllForSRT
Posts: 823
Joined: 3/25/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phoenix_gtr
quote:
ORIGINAL: AllForSRT
quote:
ORIGINAL: BurryTheSpeedo
...but that doesnt mean it is engineered well, hell if making a engine 4656456546 ltrs is the only way you can get power, well then wow....but seriously with most domestic v6/v8's to get any reasonable amount of reliable power you have to replace rods, bolts, debur the block/head, align the bores, fix the retared flow issue with the head...is all this worth it??? no...
sure that all sounds good, but is it true? Nope not in the slightlest. Who said thats the only way you can get the power? Face it V8s are a staple of American culture thats just the way it is...
Name me one domestic performance V8 that you have to replace rods, bolts or do any internal work to make in or above 400hp. an LS1, LS2, 5.0, 4.6,5.4, 5.7hemi, 6.1 hemi, will all make over 400hp without having to do any internal work and still be driven everyday....you can complain about the engineering in the pushrod V8, but you cant knock its reliability which has stood the test of time and then some.
Name me ONE honda 4 cylinder motor that can take up to 500whp and still be driven everyday on stock internals. I can name 3 domestic motors that can do that off the cuff. the 03/04 Cobra V8, the 5.4 GT500 motor, and the 2.4 liter SRT4 engine....along with about a dozen motors made in the 60's and 70's.
You are comparing honda's I4 to 3 or 4 times more displacement V8s. That's not fair. For a little engine to make 500whp it's not that easy to do like V8. The srt4 engine is bulit for turbo, wait and see somebody make 500hp out of a K23A1. Oh and trucks are supposed to last forever.
but its fair for him to compare them? That doesnt make sense, and the K23A, isnt even out yet, let alone in a Honda sport compact so you cant compare that to the SRT 2.4 just yet.
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Car List:
2006 Jeep GC SRT8
2004 Dodge SRT4
1999 Honda Civic DX coupe
"When you ask the SRT-4 to take you somewhere fast, it punches you in the face, throws you over its shoulder, and runs, screaming, so quickly that its tires can barely keep up.
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/13/2006 12:09:33 AM
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phoenix_gtr
Posts: 1000
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Yeah. It's like the Atom can be as fast as a Ferrari but a Ferrari can't be worse. He might be wrong about the V8 engineering but they are made for high hp, and honda's I4s are not. A 1.8l puts out 180-200hp, I wish they make 7.0 V8 like that, we'll have like 600-700hp? Well, honda does make V8. I agree srt-4 has the best bang for the buck but they engine is not that special. A s2000 is better than that yet it has smaller engine and no turbo.
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/13/2006 8:17:06 AM
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BurryTheSpeedo
Posts: 1481
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: callahan, Florida
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you all are making great points but i still stand with my beliefs....my dad built up a 383 and it was a pos....my uncle built up a 350 and it was a decent motor, you just had to make sure you didnt pass the magic 6....
and yeah not many people can get a 4 banger to 500hp, so how can you even ask that....esp when a v8 is two times the engine and like 4 times displacement
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/13/2006 11:59:04 AM
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AllForSRT
Posts: 823
Joined: 3/25/2006
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To each his own, I didnt mean to put Honda Motors down, In fact I love the idea of tinkering and getting power out of my Civic. Believe it or not it actually gets me more excited knowing im gaining power in my Civic than in my SRT4, because its almost too easy to gain power.
The SRT4 is like the hot slut in high school where as the Civic is like the cute little virgin daddy's girl. The Hot slut can be fun and you're guranteed results, but the cute little virgin you got to work at, and makes it that much better when you pop that cherry.
AllForSRT *unsubscribed*
_____________________________
Car List:
2006 Jeep GC SRT8
2004 Dodge SRT4
1999 Honda Civic DX coupe
"When you ask the SRT-4 to take you somewhere fast, it punches you in the face, throws you over its shoulder, and runs, screaming, so quickly that its tires can barely keep up.
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/13/2006 12:50:05 PM
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Patrick
Posts: 4307
Joined: 10/9/2004
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BurryTheSpeedo
you all are making great points but i still stand with my beliefs....my dad built up a 383 and it was a pos....my uncle built up a 350 and it was a decent motor, you just had to make sure you didnt pass the magic 6....
and yeah not many people can get a 4 banger to 500hp, so how can you even ask that....esp when a v8 is two times the engine and like 4 times displacement
it sounds like someone needed to build your dads 383 properly...not to mention that the 383 is basically the entry level mopar big block...and as for the 350, what you mean "make sure that you didnt pass the magic 6"...do you mean that it couldnt go over 6,000 rpm? im shifting my 340 at 6500 rpm...in the burnout box, i was hitting 8,000 rpm...aand when something finally did fail, it was the transmission (due to wear), not an engine component...
just because alot of camaro driving rednecks THINK that they can throw a motor together and it will be strong, but then its junk, doesnt mean that V8s are incapable of high revving performance...the small block dodge engines used in nascar are no stranger to the range of 9,000+ rpm.
the arguement of "V8s have more displacement" is not a good one, as there are plenty of small engines which can keep pace with bigger motors...'if honda built a v8' is also a lousy arguement...its not as if there are laws against it...
also, there are several neons running NA srt-4 engines in the honda-backed 4cyl/all motor class...running in the 10s. Here is one:example, as well as an example of a honda entry from that class...
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/13/2006 3:21:51 PM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
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I am not a honda nut rider but I will say this, as far as cars go, and N/A 4cyl engines go, Honda has it hands down. Patrick people were running faster than that 7/8 years ago with a sohc 2.2 honda engine(f22b). Bisi is currently running those times with a built 1.6 sohc i think and is into the mid 9's with his 2.2
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