RE: Killed a mustang!
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/14/2006 9:37:00 AM
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Patrick
Posts: 4306
Joined: 10/9/2004
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my issue with this discussion is that it always comes back around to two things..
1. how someone, somewhere, is going very fast with an NA K series motor...i dont think that anyone was disputing that they had the ability to be power.
2. all of these "mighty powerful" honda engines are HEAVILY modified from the bottom up. the other 4-cylinder performance cars around the world are capable of lots of power (although with FI), but thats on a stock bottom end...so basically with bolt ons the 4g63 and srt 2.4 will put up big numbers without pulling the engine apart.
again, comparing an engine built for forced induction to an engine built to perform NA is pointless, evidently...but i do know this...MChats srt-4 went 11.30s on a FULLY STOCK bottom end, in a daily driven car with full interior. while ive seen a basically stock k-series powered CRX in the deep 12s, it was completely gutted out...and it isnt the stock engine...
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/14/2006 10:50:57 AM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Patrick
my issue with this discussion is that it always comes back around to two things..
1. how someone, somewhere, is going very fast with an NA K series motor...i dont think that anyone was disputing that they had the ability to be power.
2. all of these "mighty powerful" honda engines are HEAVILY modified from the bottom up. the other 4-cylinder performance cars around the world are capable of lots of power (although with FI), but thats on a stock bottom end...so basically with bolt ons the 4g63 and srt 2.4 will put up big numbers without pulling the engine apart.
again, comparing an engine built for forced induction to an engine built to perform NA is pointless, evidently...but i do know this...MChats srt-4 went 11.30s on a FULLY STOCK bottom end, in a daily driven car with full interior. while ive seen a basically stock k-series powered CRX in the deep 12s, it was completely gutted out...and it isnt the stock engine...
A K series in a eg hatch with nothing more than bolt ons is a mid 12 second car. You add hondata K-Pro, weight reduction, and your knocking on low 12's to high 11's. All on a stock K20A. Sure it's in a different chassis but hell if mitsu had a 2000lb car for people to stuff the 4g63 in people would do it. The K series are what 4cyl engines should be judged on.
quote:
the K-series today (in its early stages of tune) is already the equal of a fully developed B-series street motor. And you can get that equality with virtually no mechanical skill/knowledge. Just bolt on and go. As development proceeds (heads, cams, etc.) that power will come up substantially and eclipse the B-series.
- http://www.hybrid-racing.com/articles.html
And once again I am not speaking of boosted engines I am talking all motor, no power adders. I know it is easy and cheaper to make more power with FI, that is a n brainer. What I am talking about though is a N/A match up between say a A853 and a K24a2(TSX), or say a B18C Type R vs a 2ZZ-GE. I am speaking on a level playing feild because you can not compare engines boosted, any engine can make good power boosted. Hell I have seen ford escorts boosted and be quick. Naturally aspirated is the way to compare engines.
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/14/2006 12:16:12 PM
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AllForSRT
Posts: 823
Joined: 3/25/2006
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Marty I might defend the SRT4 to the end, because frankly no one else will, and people write it off as a "neon with a turbo" When thats not the case. Dont think i turn every thread into a "why you hatin on the srt4" because whether you know it or not, i keep the trolls from the srtforums off this board. Plain and simple. Its not an easy task trying to keep 40k honda hatin members from coming on a Honda forum whenever the SRT4 gets bashed, because believe me, those guys over there LOVE TO FLAME.
and go ahead go onto srtforums.com and check out some of my posts. They are all defending the WRX, not the SRT4....you know why? because most member dont know anything about the WRX because they dont care about it, well I like to show the other perspective.
if you think its doing nothing but laying down dyno numbers your DEAD wrong. When I had my 04 base WRX with coil overs, wider rims and tires i got my ass handed to me by ACR SRT4s. The SRT4 can stop better than a Gallardo, accelerate better than a 350Z and corner better than a base WRX. Thats saying something for a car that started under 21k.
if you want to bash anything on the SRT4, bash the majority of the owners, whom i will agree suck at life.
and the whole reason why the SRT4 was brought up was because I was defending American engineered motors. I listed off a few motors that can handle 500whp on sotck internals (the SRT4s being one of them) then someone mentioned that they are only this and that because of the turbo and the convo just took off.
Its not my fault the discussion turned into a flame war, but this is a public forum and these sorts of things happen, i dont think its a bad thing that we are discussing this topic, at least people are level headed and bringing up intelligent points and not just degrading each other.
you could have it a lot worse believe me. 
< Message edited by AllForSRT -- 7/14/2006 12:25:11 PM >
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Car List:
2006 Jeep GC SRT8
2004 Dodge SRT4
1999 Honda Civic DX coupe
"When you ask the SRT-4 to take you somewhere fast, it punches you in the face, throws you over its shoulder, and runs, screaming, so quickly that its tires can barely keep up.
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/14/2006 1:16:05 PM
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Patrick
Posts: 4306
Joined: 10/9/2004
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the mitsu/dodge version of an EG hatch...sort of..
got tens?
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yeah yeah...its boosted...
 Attachment (3)
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/14/2006 3:40:00 PM
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phoenix_gtr
Posts: 1000
Joined: 3/11/2006
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I have nothing against this discussion. It's open and interesting. It started out as somebody said V8 internals are weak and somebody defended by saying honda's 4 bangers' capability is nowhere near the srt engine. That's when the honda defender comes in
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/14/2006 5:41:53 PM
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Patrick
Posts: 4306
Joined: 10/9/2004
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im not trying to bash or defend anyone, but I feel that dollar for dollar, the 4g63 has been putting up bigger numbers than the honda engines..
by no means am i suggesting that honda CANT make strong engines; we all know that they can...but someone mentioned that the srt engine was turbo'd, so it should be stronger, and i produced a pretty quick NA srt4 motor, in a car that is probably a little heavier than the rest of that class, which is almost entirely EF and EG hatches...
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/15/2006 3:20:10 AM
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built_eg
Posts: 20
Joined: 7/13/2006
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id have to agree with ALLFORSRT on this one. ford v8's can handle a pretty substantial amount of power in stock block form. a buddy of mine has a 93 gt with a 5.0. he has over 180,000 miles on that car, and he just slapped a procharger on it with a 9lb pulley. after tuning, it runs great, and the stock block/heads handles the power great.
and you "AllForSRT", sorry i talked **** and jumped the gun BIG TIME on that one post. you know which one im talkin about. dont really want everyone on here to make me out as being an ass. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: AllForSRT
quote:
ORIGINAL: BurryTheSpeedo
i dont know...you see mustangs and other domestic muscle cars can build up power really easy, but is it worth it when you rev past 6k and throw a rod because the engine was designed by a 5 year old...i accept the fact that without a tuned boosted motor i cant compete with them, but i am content in knowing that my car can rev to 7500, and not blow apart....
overall engineering PWNs power...
Im going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on this one.
the new Mustang GT's 3V V8 can handle TONS of power in fact any Ford designed V8 can and will take to bolt ons amazingly. Even the underrated 1999 SVT Cobra motor can take a bolt on Kenne Bell supercharger and safley handle upwards of 420whp.
The engineering might not be up to par with a b18c ITR motor, but nonetheless the 4.6 modular Ford V8 consistently makes "The Greatest Engine List" and other achievements. If your going to get mad about someone putting down Hondas, dont be a hyporcrite by criticizing their car either......just my .02 
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/16/2006 12:36:05 PM
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AllForSRT
Posts: 823
Joined: 3/25/2006
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no problem guy, it takes a big man to apoligize I appreciate that a lot. and im sorry for any disrespect I might have given you.
_____________________________
Car List:
2006 Jeep GC SRT8
2004 Dodge SRT4
1999 Honda Civic DX coupe
"When you ask the SRT-4 to take you somewhere fast, it punches you in the face, throws you over its shoulder, and runs, screaming, so quickly that its tires can barely keep up.
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/17/2006 5:17:37 AM
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hondaracer05
Posts: 1057
Joined: 12/29/2005
From: new mexico, then mt, then alaska, now mt again...
Status: offline
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wow, this post is very interesting, i have nuthin against any of the cars mentioned, and btw built_eg i like your hb!!!
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RE: Killed a mustang! - 7/17/2006 4:29:07 PM
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SovXietday
Posts: 1902
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Harleysville, PA
Status: offline
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I know a girl running a D16Z6.
Stock sleeves, unported head, and 463whp and something around 350wtq in an EG hatch. Car is fully expected to run low 11s if not 10s, she said it has no traction on street tires until 5th gear, completely daily driven.
All built and tuned for less than 10K including the car.
Who needs a Kseries?
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Champ White 1996 Civic Hatchback - 57trim SOHC
Black 1998 Z28 Camaro - LS1 M6
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