This question pops up a lot, in fact, more often than I care to continue to see.

"What is better, supercharger or turbocharger?"

First off, better is a very very broad term. You need to decide what you are going to use it for. A turbocharger may be better for some things, and a supercharger for others. It all depends on how you drive your car, where you drive your car, how often you drive your car, etc.

I have PERSONALLY owned and driven both a supercharged Honda Civic and a turbocharged Honda Civic, the following is my conclusion.

Supercharger

How it works - Superchargers are crank driven. The crank turns, which turns a belt, which turns a pulley attached to the nose of the supercharger, which rotates two rotors inside of the casing forcing air into an intake plenum and creating what we call "boost." Boost is just about instant in a supercharger, the intake plenum is fairly small in volume so it doesn't take long to pressurize and the rotors are turned directly by the crank. This also means that it takes torque to make power, the supercharger is extra load upon the engine.

IMO, this leads to one small problem, especially with a Honda. 1.6/1.8L of high revving efficiency does not make productable torque, that's why they're high revving in the first place. Since it takes torque to spin the supercharger, it's sapping what precious power the engine already has. Obviously, the supercharger makes up for it by pressurizing the intake on cue and therefore creating a lot more power, but it's still taking power to make power.

The number one biggest problem is cooling. With the compression of air happening 5" from the intake valves, where in the world would you place a cooling device? LHT introduced their intercoolers, which basically run a core of cold air through the intake plenum. This is a very expensive mod, about $2000+ after it's all said and done. By 10psi, the M45 unintercooled will be pushing almost 300* intake air temperatures, which if you haven't guessed, is extremely dangerous.

Superchargers are rumored to be "more reliable" as well. I disagree, the long complex pulley system of the supercharger is prone to malfunction. The Jackson Racing idler pullies have seizing issues, which on an SOHC setup will throw a belt and fail to rotate the alternator assembly. Basically the car becomes completely undrivable, and the idler pulleys are a serious pain in the ass to replace, excuse my language. The belts also tend to walk off the pulley systems, and when tightened to combat the issue, introduce exessive strain on the blower assembly.

Another issue, the aftermarket has never been very strong for them. Parts are expensive, and often yeild little results. They're also limited to psi they can push, like I said, by 10psi the M45 unintercooled becomes literally a flamethrower for an engine. M62 (Bseries) has seen 14 before that issue occurs.

You're probably asking, well why the hell do people buy these things then? There are less moving parts than a turbo, often times that can get confusing and often intimidating. It's bolt on, no custom fabrication or any of that. It's nice to have instant torque at the push of a pedal, the car is very predictable and a nice intercooled or low boost setup is GREAT for autox/road racing. For daily driven reasons, hills are conquerable in 5th gear with ease, and it's a lot easier to merge in and out of traffic. Oh, and it makes a really cool sound too!

Turbocharger

How it works - Exhaust gases are pushed through the exhaust side of the turbo. The gases push a turbine, much like wind would a windmill, and exit out of the car. The turbine is connected by a shaft across the "compressor" inlet. The compressor turbine spins drawing in air through the turbo, and expelling it into a length of tubing called "charge" piping. Often times this piping runs out infront of the car, through an intercooler, and back to the throttle body. Now, a turbocharger turbine can spin upwards of 70,000rpms, this sucks in a LOT of air, and it is all then compressed through the charge piping creating boost. As you can see, the amount of volume that a turbocharger setup has to pressurize is quite a bit more than what a supercharger has to pressurize, this is what causes that turbo "lag." It's basically the amount of time that it takes for the turbo to mash enough air into all of that tubing so that it is pressurized.

There are a lot of parts on a turbocharger. The turbo manifold, the turbo itself, wastegate, charge piping, intercooler, blow off valve, etc. Turbo's are also susceptable to things like boost spike. This normally happens when a wastegate is poorly placed and cannot relieve enough of the air to keep the turbo from creating more and more boost. If you're not tuned for something like this, it could easily destroy an engine.

"Turbo setups aren't reliable." WRONG. Are you going to tell me that Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Audi are making extremely unreliable cars to sell to the consumers? A turbo setup on a Honda can be just as reliable as any of the stock cars you see on the market today, you just need to spend the right money on the right parts. The most overlooked of which is tuning. A good fuel setup, a good tune, and spending the money on good reliable working parts will make your turbocharged Honda that much more reliable, and that much more fun to drive.

Turbochargers are also a lot easier to up the boost with. Swap out the wastegate spring, or simply just slap on a boost controller and boost away. Obviously this all needs correct tuning procedures, but it's not swapping out pulleys like the supercharger.

Aftermarket is also HUGE for turbocharged Honda's. Everything and anything you could ever want turbocharged is available, and often times can be had used for fairly cheap.

What about a vortech supercharger?

It's basically a turbocharger that instead of being driven by exhaust gas, is driven by your crank pulley. It's also a lot more expensive than both the JRSC or a nice turbocharger setup. So in my opinion, overpriced and no good.

So what is better? Supercharger or Turbocharger.

In my experienced opinion, for a Honda, turbochargers. Unfortunately the superchargers have to use our little torque to make boost, and although low end torque sounds great, the benefit is gone by 3K. Throw a T25 on your Honda, you'll make more power and you'll have it by 3K. Throw a T3/T4 on your Honda, and although you'll have to wait a bit longer for the fun, but you won't even be able to look back.

And of course, here's what I have personally experienced through dynosheets. Both dyno's were done with a 100% stock D16Y8 engine and very similar PSI.

JRSC 6psi pulley, rising to 8psi by redline.
146whp and 118wtq

http://users.rcn.com/dwilz/Dyno-4-23-06.jpg

T3T04e 57trim at 7psi
210whp and 167wtq

http://users.rcn.com/dwilz/Dyno210.jpg

That is a 64whp and 49wtq INCREASE in power at virtually the same PSI level. Granted I am using a fairly large turbo, but it's clear just how much power the JRSC is sapping due to it's leeching qualities and tendency to superheat the intake air.

It seems clear to me that turbochargers are a superior technology, and when researched and tuned correctly will make significantly more power with great reliability.

Feel free to discuss, I will be checking this post frequently to add my input, but I urge everyone to add their opinion or even questions. I'd like this to be a very informative post.

Thanks for reading everyone.

I like the break down, and graphs and charts are always better when making a point. This subject and other things I see more often than I continue to see. I'm glad you started this post SovXietday

On the turbo components. The turbine being on the exhaust side expands the spent gases to produce work. Push implies boundary work whereas enthalpy implies the internal energy of the air plus PV work. In this case it is the change of enthalpy of the air that is producing work. The shaft of the turbine is common to the turbo and this sort of setup is VERY reliable like SovXietday said. The best example of this would be any turbojet plane in the air. All use a compressor/ turbine arrangement to compress incoming air to the combustion chamber.

Which brings me to another point about forced induction, the concept of RAM. Thank Pontiac for this BS and for confusing everyday people. You never see Ram effects in driving, ever. I dont care if you have a Porsche, Ferrari, whatever. Changes in air from dynamic to stagnation conditions in cars is insignificant when compared to RAMjet engines. You simply dont have a large enough velocity difference. Stagnation conditions arise from a dynamic to complete stop of a moving fluid. Stagnation temperature and pressure and always higher than dynamic temperature and pressure. So if you ever see an intake that says RAM effect or a hood scoop that says RAM effect you know that an engineer was NOT present in the design of that piece of equipment.

Something about combustion, which leads to turbos. SI (spark ignition- Otto cycle) tend to run very close to Phi=1 (equivalence ratio which tells you whether you are running rich or lean). Turbocharged cars need to be TUNED because Phi shouldnt very much from 0.9-1.2 throughout the RPM range of any car. So dont slap a turbo on and expact your car to run OK w/o a tune. You may get lucky with a good kit but at least have the car checked out. Oh and running lean WILL heat your engine up and not help your gas mileage appreciably.. so dont do this!

OK I think I'm done...

Great write up!



Btw, mitsus and audis arent known too well for reliability ;)

being an owner of both routes as well i agree with you. and really the only decision as to which route to take is your driving style and personal preference. i personally loved my jrsc and regret selling the car. and the whine.........i mean the whine is jsut as nice as a good bov:D

very informative thanks.

I completely forgot to mention about variable area turbochargers. I'm heading out so I cant rant about this but check out the new Porsche 911 turbo. Very inovative and turbo lag is essentially gone. Maybe someone else would like to give their two cents about some new turbo technology, unfortunately I am not a trained mechanic so I dont know the hands on part but as a grad student I do get the theory taught to me. I'd like to know what sucks about working on turbocharged cars and difficulties installing them.

Maybe someone could comment on those 9 sec Civics winning drag competitions also... very cool engineering going on there...

If you notice, honda also came out w a variable turbo in the new rdx. Its different to the VTG system in the 911 but it has the same purpose.

In my opinion, variable turbos are garbage.

ORIGINAL: pWnEdU

In my opinion, variable turbos are garbage.


Mind expanding as to why? I'm just curious, I actually haven't had a chance to look into them, although I've heard about them.

If I had to take one installation over the other, I'd definitely install a turbo kit over installing the SC. I don't know about everyone else, but the one thing that drives me bonkers about engines is the damn vacuum and coolant routing. I ran something like 12 coolant and vacuum lines, taking me over 3 hours to do, with the supercharger. It doesn't really give as much room to play with as I would have liked, and JRs instructions suck. After blowing up my first idler pulley, I discovered just how much of a pain in the ass it was to swap them out. I hated dealing with that damn belt, it was such a nightmare everytime it needed to be fixed.

The turbo on the other hand was a lot easier of an install, nothing overly difficult about it, it just took a lot longer because there's more parts and more fabrication. Biggest things to worry about are the charge pipe coupling and intercooler mounting, everything else goes on pretty easy providing you spent the money for the right parts the first time around. Exhausts are a serious pain in the ass though, I have been driving open DP for the past few weeks because I just simply haven't had the money to get an exhaust completely together!

I haven't had an issue with the turbocharger yet, so I don't really know what to expect when fixing things. Everything is accessible however, and there's not really much that can go wrong. Coupler blows off and the turbo seals blow... that's about it honestly?

Remmy... I've been in the car scene for like a year and a half, I know DSMs hold up for ****, but then again... they're also 10+ year old beat to death every day cars.[8D]

is a turbo the same thing as a turbo charger if not what is the difference?

yes
also no one said anything about centrifugal superchargers, or is that the same as a vortech thing...

vortech is a centrifugal SC.

On jackson's site, they address the temperature thing, and I wonder what your thoughts are? Granted, they are selling something, so take it with a grain of salt, but it seems to make sense. Sprry to cut and paste the whole thing, just thought hmm, and wondered what you all thought.


"Jackson Racing has been in business for over 25 years doing high performance Honda/Acura tuning and we speak with some sort of authority on the subject of Turbo vs Supercharged Vs Intercooling. Having built turbo Hondas since 1976, the first turbo/intercooled CRX's in 1984, and having run the first turbo/intercooled Honda at the first Battle of the Imports in 1990, we do have experience with all of the above issues and can speak, without bias, having done so. And, having seen first hand the long term effects of turbochargers on daily driven high compression Honda/Acura engines, we have opted to supercharge the future.

For ease of installation, instant power, and low cost, nitrous is the only way to fly. However, that is if you only want to go drag racing. If you want everyday nitrous type power, you have to go to forced induction. That is where the turbo Vs supercharger debate comes in. For absolute peak power where driveability, turbo lag, emissions, and long engine life does not need to be taken into consideration, turbo is the only way to go. But, with all things in this life, there is no free ride. With a properly designed turbo charger system you have the ability to produce huge amounts of boost and horsepower easily. The problem with that amount of boost is that once the turbo spools, it goes to full boost. There is no linear delivery of boost.

Consequently, if the turbo spools at 3000 rpm, you have full boost at a valve speed that is very slow. So, the turbo has lots of time to create cylinder pressure on the rods and pistons because of the very long time that the valve is open. This, in turn, is what creates that huge rush of power when the turbo spools. This is also what causes so many turbo engine failures. Combine that with the fact that the compressor sits within 2" of a glowing 1300 degree cast iron oven, the charge air temperature is always very high. This has created the myth that anything with forced induction has to be intercooled. If you have checked the intake temperature of any of the late model O.E. manufactured intercooled turbos, at the intake manifold, not the outlet of the intercooler, you will find that the intake air temperature is near 200 degrees, even after the intercooler. As an example, a test by Sport Compact Car on a new model Turbo/intercooled German built car, they found the charge air temperature at the throttle plate to be 206 degrees after the intercooler. You see, the intercooler is a great thing as long as you have steady air flowing over it. If you are doing a lot of starts and stops, the effectiveness of the intercooler is diminished. Secondarily, once the air has been cooled, it has to be routed back to the intake manifold. That means that it has to come back into the hot engine compartment and the tubing re-heats the air. Not a lot mind you, but it still happens. Equally important, you have to fill all of that tubing with boost, then, when you shift and the bypass blows open, it empties the tubing, requiring the tubing to be refilled. This is the main cause of poor throttle response and the classic turbo lag in a intercooled turbo car. Now, keep in mind that this is all a mute point if you are at speed. But, then you have to stop. Once you stop, you have to cool the turbo. And heat, being the heart of the turbo, is also the enemy of the engine. To further the intercooler debate, let us consider the Ford supercharged/intercooled T-Bird and the GM (Buick-Pontiac) supercharged/non intercooled cars.

The Ford uses a 90 c.i. Eaton supercharger with as much as 14 psi and an intercooler. GM uses a 62 c.i Eaton supercharger with 8 psi and no intercooler. GM mounts their supercharger "Hot Rod" style, on top of the intake manifold as close to the intake valves as possible, with no intercooler. GM's approach, it appears, is to run less boost and thereby, less discharge temperature, and mount the supercharger as close to the intake valve as possible for maximum driveability. Ford's approach seems to be to go for the maximum effect with an intercooler. But, to push the charge air all the way out to the grill, through the intercooler, and back to the intake manifold, requires a larger supercharger and large quantity of boost. Thus, the 90 c.i. supercharger on the T-Bird and the 62 c.i. Supercharger on the GM models. In the final analysis, both engines have an identical horsepower reading. I am sure you are asking yourself "How can that be?" It is in the systems efficiency.

The GM system appears to be more efficient overall. Less load from the supercharger, intercooler, and all of the related plumbing equals better throttle response and an overall better driving package. Now, I am not saying that an air to water intercooler, mounted close to the engine would not be a great piece, it is just that in some engine compartments, it is not possible to package it. So, intercooling is fine if the system is not parasitic by design with plumbing running everywhere, and the net effect of the intercooler system in day to day driving, and that is what I am speaking of, is positive."

On a car like this, a turbo would be the way to go unless you feel like building a 'built' motor to really make use of a supercharger. If you're limited on how much you can boost due to the strength of the motor or even cooling, you're going to do better with something that is not going to drag power off the motor to turn. Depending on what type of supercharger you use, your 9 PSI of boost could/will be very hot, which may have boost, but the oxygen within the boost is lower. I don't know what type of blower you used, but if it was a roots style, that is by far the most inefficient SC out there.

I've had experience with both a turbocharged SHO and a several supercharged SHO's and these motors take VERY well to both. These motors are strong enough to just up the boost on a supercharger if you're not fast enough. Just 9 PSI net me 381 whp. Yes, the turbo SHO at the same PSI put out more power (~30 more whp)at the same boost, but last I checked, the fastest SHO is still supercharged (if rumors are correct, 637whp).


I agree, with these tiny, rev-happy motors, you'll most likely want a turbo if you're shooting for lots of power. I personally do not like the lag when trying to run up the mountains or on a road course. I like being able to step on the throttle after slowing down for a turn and have all the power right there.

Looking at the graphs, the SC has a much flatter torque curve. Yes, it still has less torque in more places, but it does have a nice flat, usable torque curve. The turbo graph looks very similiar to what a centrifical blower graph looks like (and remote-mounted turbos).

Packman, never read that before, was definitely some good info.

Like I said, heating issues are limited at low boost applications on the JRSC. However, I've driven both the supercharger and the turbocharger hard for extended period of times. When I opened the hood, even at low boost applications, the supercharger assembly and valve cover were HOT!! I mean you could feel it on your face hot. Too many moving parts, the two large rotors chopping at the air added with the extra load of the engine creates a lot more heat than my turbo setup ever has.

Remember, 10psi on an M45 has been known to create 300* IAT temps!!! Excuse me, but although 200-210 is a bit on the high side... I'll take them any day over 280+.

As for comparing graphs, take in mind that I do have a turbo that is on the large size for this engine. A smaller turbo would obviously create torque a lot earlier, but probably not make the same gains. This turbo setup is designed for the track and highway ripping, I'm only concerned about numbers 5000RPMs and above.

Comparing a supercharged V8 to a supercharged I4 is two totally different things. ;)

ORIGINAL: BurryTheSpeedo

yes
also no one said anything about centrifugal superchargers, or is that the same as a vortech thing...


Vortech = Centrifugal

Pretty much, it's simple. Instead of spinning a turbo with exhaust gases, use your crank instead. Boost increases with RPMs, but they are VERY expensive systems and often times argued not to be worth it.

good points, I guess all I ever hear about are the huge turbos, and motors that have to run over 5K to make power. My car is a DD, never going to race it but might go to the track once or twice. but nothing big. I like the way a SC is smooth in it's power delivery, and you're right, a V8 is no comparison to a little 4 banger. If you aren't going for the biggest power, the simplicity of being able to bolt it on in an afternoon is nice.

although the heat has me worried a little, looking at the vortech SC it does have an aftercooler option, but for the price you could get a good turbo kit.

To cool my Vortech, I run a two stage water injection kit. I think it was all of $250 or $350. I like the way my car builds power with it.

http://www.hosting.superhighoutput.com/yamahasho/1995%20MTX%20SHO%20pics/SC%20Dyno.jpg

ORIGINAL: packman5280

good points, I guess all I ever hear about are the huge turbos, and motors that have to run over 5K to make power. My car is a DD, never going to race it but might go to the track once or twice. but nothing big. I like the way a SC is smooth in it's power delivery, and you're right, a V8 is no comparison to a little 4 banger. If you aren't going for the biggest power, the simplicity of being able to bolt it on in an afternoon is nice.

although the heat has me worried a little, looking at the vortech SC it does have an aftercooler option, but for the price you could get a good turbo kit.


Keep the SC at 6psi and you'll have no issues, 8psi I'd be wary about driving it on hot summer days.

If you want a small streetable setup, honestly just get a smaller T3 turbo or 14B and use that. They will create boost early and be easy to use on the streets. But, in all honesty, spooling at or above 5K isn't as bad as it always seems to sound. Just drop a gear and well hey, you're back to boosting.;) I find my setup to be a great daily driver setup, I'm not in boost when I don't want to be, and it's not but a downshift away when I want it.

i agree with what u guys all say totally but theres just times when ur driving around, maybe after a long crappy day at work, when u romp on it, u dont want to wait for the boost 2 kick in, u want just full power right then and there, thats when i want it. also, i love the acceleration part of a car the most, to me its fast if it can push u back in ur seat the second the pedal is to the floor. a turbo u have to wait a while. i had a supercharged grand prix gtp, i loved acceleration in that it was perfect for me cuz i didnt drive any higher than 80 really so a turbo for me is pointless.

ORIGINAL: yoRt

i agree with what u guys all say totally but theres just times when ur driving around, maybe after a long crappy day at work, when u romp on it, u dont want to wait for the boost 2 kick in, u want just full power right then and there, thats when i want it. also, i love the acceleration part of a car the most, to me its fast if it can push u back in ur seat the second the pedal is to the floor. a turbo u have to wait a while. i had a supercharged grand prix gtp, i loved acceleration in that it was perfect for me cuz i didnt drive any higher than 80 really so a turbo for me is pointless.


Haha, man have you ever driven either a supercharged or turbo Civic? You make boost lag seem like an eternity, it's like 2 seconds away for even me. That and a supercharged civic hardly "pushes" you into the back of your seat, lol.

thanks for writing this up!

ORIGINAL: mxs

thanks for writing this up!


that's all you have to say msx? jk :D

Thanks for writing this up!
I learned more about turbos. what the hell is T9, 14b, m54?????!!!!

No one say anything about backfires? and TWIN TURBO!!!

yeah i was just about to post that myself before i saw Poly. Whats a twin turbo?

i saw BMW has one. and wonnder does that double the boost? and do we have a civic with twin turbo?

ORIGINAL: FlipHKD720

yeah i was just about to post that myself before i saw Poly. Whats a twin turbo?


It's literally two turbos, and can be setup a number of ways..

Theres a guy who build one on HMT, but it looks like complete ass. His is set up sequentially which means he's basically using one tiny turbo to help spool and reduce lag on a big fat ass turbo.

Post 9000 Bitches![sm=gears.gif]

im just barely @ 500s. wat a post whore u r!

Twin turbo's is just that, two turbo's.

They can be done two ways. Individual or sequential. Individual on a 4 cylinder is tough, it's more common with V engines because you have two seperate exhaust outlets for turbo's to spool off of. Basically they combine the charge piping, resulting in a fast and powerful spool time. Sequential is a bit different, you have one small turbo and one large turbo. The small one starts spooling early and helps spool the larger one, which then more or less takes over. Unfortunately you still get restriction because the exhaust is still going through the smaller turbo. On Civic's they're a mess, not really worth your while either way.

T9, 14B, Tdohblahblahblahblah, they're just "names" I guess you could say of turbo's. The most common ones you're going to see are 14B which comes with the smaller Greddy kit, T25 which is stock on most DSMs and 240s, 16G which is the EVO turbo, T3s which are found on Saabs, Mercedes, etc (varying sizes), and T3/T4s which is a T3 exhaust housing mated with a T4 series compressor housing allowing for the faster spool and overall larger volume of air that they can move.

Backfires generally occur when someone routes their BOV back into their charge piping. When the person lets off the gas the car goes extremely rich for a split second, thus causing the car to throw fuel out of the exhaust valves and down through the exhaust where it ignites and goes boom! The other reason would be similar, they're just running really rich and when they let off the excess fuel ignites in the exhaust system. Not really a big deal, but it looks cool!

heck yeah! backfires are COOL! bam, bam! thanks for the info bro!
where are you guys all living up NORTH? I wanna turbo my ex later in life, no one here to help me!!! :(((

Haha, my car backfires sometimes, it used to do it a lot when I was open DP.

Honestly dude, a year ago I didn't know **** about anything. Read some books, read some websites, search through the archives of as many honda forums as you can find, and never be afraid to ask questions to the guys who do this **** day in and day out.:)

ORIGINAL: POLYTHING

i saw BMW has one. and wonnder does that double the boost? and do we have a civic with twin turbo?

Who give a **** about twin turbos. Quad turbo y0000

ORIGINAL: SovXietday

Haha, my car backfires sometimes


Mine used to once in a while, but since my last tune it hasn't done it once

Mine backfires when Im coming down on high throttle. Its normal though.

When you say backifre, you're just talking about it popping right? I swa Soviet said the exhaust "ignites", meaning theres flames? And are you guys saying backfiring is something you want?

So theoretically, could you get two small turbos and have each of them routed to two exhaust outlets (considering we all have 4 cylinders)? I know it'd be useless probably, but THEORETICALLY, could you?

Backfire is literally when you're running rich and you get fuel in the exhaust. Then when you shut the throttle you stop adding gas to the mix, so it turns into a fireball. If you're running rich enough, you will actually get a fireball to shoot out of your exhaust. Normally it's just a loud pop.

It's not a bad thing, explosions are happening thousands of times per minute in your intake, this explosion just happens in a non controlled environment that's all.

I think a better term would be an afterfire really.

Two cylinders wouldn't provide as much force on the exhaust turbine as four, so I'm not sure how practical it'd be.

Ya i would think you could. Just make a custom manifold that has two different outlets and put turbos on each of them. Someone should do it even though its prolly to be the same as a single turbo.

It's been done, looks like ass, didn't make a lot of power. If you want to turbo a 4 cylinder, all you need is one.

well yeah u guys i didnt think itd be very practical, but idk, if you made a small enough tubro maybe it could work? Just brain stormin :)

Anyone wanna see a Vortech Supercharger (basically a turbo compressor wheel that is belt driven instead of the rotors being belt driven that are common in superchargers). This one is in an S2000, you just gotta love that honda engine mounted vertically instead of horizontally (My next car is an S2000... would absolutely love a rear wheel drive honda!!!!)


http://1autochovil.fiestras.com/futuretense_cs/Imagen/2005-AL-Racing-Honda-S2000-Engine-Compartment-1280x960.jpg

The vortech will carry torque all the way to redline with ease. It builds boost pressure per rpm though, so prior about 5k rpm, power output is low. You need a high revver to take advantage of it. Most people regard the turbo as being able to so the same thing for less money.

ORIGINAL: Kedawei

The vortech will carry torque all the way to redline with ease. It builds boost pressure per rpm though, so prior about 5k rpm, power output is low. You need a high revver to take advantage of it. Most people regard the turbo as being able to so the same thing for less money.


A turbo is also a lot more efficient.

would it be possible to put a small supercharger on a 4cyl to addtorque but not loose gas milage and maybe even gain some?

yes, jackson racing makes one for sohc civics

interesting, thx for posting.

ORIGINAL: ImixarmNhammerw/coke

would it be possible to put a small supercharger on a 4cyl to addtorque but not loose gas milage and maybe even gain some?


The ****? Did you read the first post?

if you need proof of these things working, just take a look at the newest GM duramax diesel (which is produced by Isuzu) almost all the diesel heavy duty diesels have variable turbine technology. and these engines can be made to almost double their torque and horspower with intake,exhaust and programmer tuning alone. these are very effective turbochargers, for everyday uses. cause a truck needs off the line torque and the the high rpm (for a diesel) power to tow a trailer up hills. so i think if it works for hard working trucks than it will be perfect for a high-performance enthusiasts. thats actually where superchargers and turbochargers originated from.

hey sov, i have a question for you, would u recommend turbo on a d15b8, is that even possible? or should i swap out for a jdm b16/18 or gsr and then turbo? Would it be efficient to turbo and tune a d15b8, im interested in building up a d series, and ive heard from others that you can get quite a bit of power from them, of course this would be over a longer period of time. I am willing to invest into it, as i will probally drive this car for quite some time, and would eventually like it to run as an autocross car only? So any advice about turboing specific engines? Would i need a stronger transmission?

i turboed my d15b8 it was fun for a little while then i swapped a d15b7 head on and retuned it, man did that wake the car up

couple months late hahahaha

It would be awesome to add a Turbo to my 07 Si. $3k is just the start correct???

the price is highly contingent on where you look/how much you do yourself/what you're looking for in terms of power.

I say turbo > supercharger

in those dyno charts your turbo was intercooled right... the JRSC doesnt come with an intercooler/heat exchanger so its at a disadvantage right there.


And who bumps this thread to say turbos own superchargers with nothing else to say, probably has never driven either one. Just a bandwagoner.:D

i have driven and owned both.......both d16 engines.......t25 greddy was faster than jsc but jsc more predictable fun power...

I'm thinking that you could make the same power or maybe a little more n/a as with a supercharger on our little d seriesand not have to worry about intake temps. What about nitrous with a supercharger? Would that take care of the intake temps, at least while you are spraying?

Hey Guys, I'm running an '06 k20 Si and i was looking at Turbo or SC. I had a Mini Cooper S for a while (total crap heap) and loved the SC whine. But I havent seen any data for the K20 and SC applications. I have seen claims by turbo companies (TSI Greddy) that thier turbo kits bump it to 280 HP, dunno the whp.

Any ideas?

so what turbo is best suited for a 98 civic?? what is the reccomended turbo for a civic??

Total noob here. So, I'm interested in a Jackson Racing super-charger. Seems like a somewhat simple installation, or at least a time consuming installation. I have a stockD15B7 with an auto transmission.
Anyway,for those who have installed it, did you add anything else? MSI ignition stuff? Newwires?Fuel rail? Fuel pump? Exhaust system? Anything you would stay away from? (other than a good old-fashioned APC windshield sticker)
I see there are various water spraying kits out there. Anyone install one with a JRSC? Just curious.How often are you filling up the water resevoir? What do you put into the water resevoir (tap water, distilled water, windshield washer fluid)?

supercharger will require bigger injectors, possibly new fuel pump, a larger exhaust system, and some sort of engine management. The size of the pump, injectors and exhaust diamter depends on the PSI and how much power you are making.

i have an 05 civic lx coupe with a 1.7L 16V SOHC D17A1 stock. its an automatic too (*sigh i know*). i dont want to really spend 1000+ to prep the internals and other stuff for a high powered turbo or supercharger. i was looking at the TSI D series turbo kit with the Garrett GT25 (or GT25R ball bearing upgrade) for it and it claims to be safe on stock internals. would it be safe cuz reliability is high priority for me. it also mentions that the catalytic converter islost with this kit, whats up with that?

are there any superchargers out there, or other turbos for that matter, that would work for me? i could only find SI superchargers...

On average how much does a turbo kill your mpg? I want to go turbo when I have the money, but the thing i love about the civic is i put $10 maybe 15 a week for all city.

as long as you are staying out of boost there is no noticable decrease in MPG. All a turbo does is add an a**load of air to the mix. Obviously you add an a**load of fuel to compensate hence a decrease in MPG. Stay out of boost when its not needed and you will be as happy as you are now at the pumps.

I know this might sound like a stupid question, but I have to ask. I have a 02 honda civic coupe. I want to put another engine with turbo into it. I was wondering what would be the best engine for the car and what turbo would work the best. I was wondering if twin turbos are worth it or I should just stick to one and just get a bigger one. The car is basically stock, just has some racing springs with new exhaust. Any help would be appreciated.

Honestly, twin turbos would be a little overkill in your vehicle. they are normally put on vehicles that make an insane amount of boost, but run 2 small turbos to cut down on lag. or they are for V series engines (v-6, v-8 and so on) with 2 cylinder banks and 2 exhaust manifolds, so that you can obtain boost from both cyinder banks and you lose less exhaust energy.

Somebody else can answer whats the best engine for boost and what the best turbo. My thoughts would be a low compression B18 with the GSR or ITR tranny to handle the power. a nice t3/t4 trim would be good for street boost and you could upgrade from there.
But any engine coud be boosted, but i would be careful with the D17's i don't hear too many great things about them, but they shoudn't have the oiling problems of the D16Y7 (which i've seen handle boost quite well)

for boost you want low compression... nitrous is better with high compression

ORIGINAL: koots

Honestly, twin turbos would be a little overkill in your vehicle. they are normally put on vehicles that make an insane amount of boost, but run 2 small turbos to cut down on lag. or they are for V series engines (v-6, v-8 and so on) with 2 cylinder banks and 2 exhaust manifolds, so that you can obtain boost from both cyinder banks and you lose less exhaust energy.

Somebody else can answer whats the best engine for boost and what the best turbo. My thoughts would be a low compression B18 with the GSR or ITR tranny to handle the power. a nice t3/t4 trim would be good for street boost and you could upgrade from there.
But any engine coud be boosted, but i would be careful with the D17's i don't hear too many great things about them, but they shoudn't have the oiling problems of the D16Y7 (which i've seen handle boost quite well)


of the y7? I know the y8 has an aluminum pan, but the y7 has a steel pan that the drain line can be welded too, so i don't see why the y7 would have more trouble than the any other engine; matter of fact alot of y8 users swap on the y7 pan so it can be welded if i remember correctly.

thank you for the time you put into that and i know im turbo charging my civic now. i know for sure that i am picking up a t3t4 turbo too.

i like the write up///im new to the site and everything and am getting a 04 honda civic in about a month or so. i want to put some performance parts in my car and this really helped. im looking for as much advice and suggestion as possible and im really gonna take this into consideration. if you have any other advice or suggestion that you could personally give me, just message me please. id really appreciate it and would love the help.

still reading the posts, very interesting and explicative. but couldn't resists:

So if you ever see an intake that says RAM effect or a hood scoop that says RAM effect you know that an engineer was NOT present in the design of that piece of equipment.

LOL