Ok my friend at school has a 1990 300ZX N/A version. He has been talking a lot of smack. Today he told me his car produced about 300 HP and that it was the 2nd fasted production car in the world in 1990. Now I know cars and I am thinking that there is no way his non turbo 300ZX is pushing 300 HP. The car is completely stock. So I go home and search it on WikiPedia.org. It turns out his car has the VG30DE engine which only produces about 222 HP. The car also weighs 3500 pounds.

I am pretty sure I can walk all over his @ss once I get turbo. But what are the chances of my car, 1993 civic EX w/ D16Z6 vs. his car which weighs more than 1000 pounds more than my car? Any chance in hell? Should I try to shut him up before I turbo my car?

yea u should

do either of you have any mods yet?

Im running just a SRI and exhaust. he is completely stock.

he'll probably beat you NA, but youll be pretty close.

Well I really dont even mind losing to him. Can you really brag about beating a stock civic? And if its going to be close then I will race him for sure. He thinks he will totally blow me away like im riding a Huffy. But if the race is even close at all it will shut him up. And I will make sure to take my digital camera along to get it on tape because if I beat him no one will believe me!

haha, hard evidence is always the best proof

Yeah shut his dumbass up. that car is a Brick with wheels.

it will be a drivers race really

hahaha.....fastest production in 1990. tell smarty pants to line up with a 1990 taurus SHO. or find a 91 syclone....it's just a pickup truck lol. what a douche bag

ORIGINAL: cbaber
Today he told me his car produced about 300 HP and that it was the 2nd fasted production car in the world in 1990.



2nd fastest production car in 1990:eek:

Try second fastest production Nissan.

Be careful though, those cars respond wickedly to mods, and it will be a lot easier for him to turbo up than it is for you (he has everything ready to go). And those cars aren't bad at all with a turbo.

a family friend of mine had a 300zxTT that could spin for about aquarter mile without brake standing. but then he sold it.....

Well today at school I told him about the research I did. I told him he had only 222 HP and weighed 3500 pounds, bla bla bla... Well he doesnt believe me at all. Still thinks its the coolest car in the world. So I challanged him to a race and he agreed. So when it gets warm and isnt snowing we are going to race.

tell him to RTFM

seriously, his owner's manual will tell him striaght up, the curb weight, and factory spec'd horsepower

The TT can run high13's stock. This was probably what he was talking about being one of the fastest production cars made at the time.
The N/A can run low 15's.
Unless it's an auto, either one will beat you.

The N/A will run 14's with a cheap mod or two.

They weigh 3500lbs, jeez, thats almost almost about 450lbs heavier then my car!!![&:]

Doesn't matter the weight when it's racing a Civic. It has RWD andtons of torque to pull its weight. It'll pull off the line, and keep pulling on the roll.

Doesn't matter the weight when it's racing a Civic.

It weights about 1400 pounds more than my civic. Your saying that means nothing? 198 ft lbs. of torque isnt tons of torque on a 3500 pound car.

Are those older z's 6's or 4's???

The 1990 + were all the same generation. The Z32's all had 3.0 v6's im pretty sure. I may be wrong about that though but his is a V6.

They are v6's and nissan did the same thing with them as mitsu did with the 4g63 and that is build them all the same and for boost. So this is a 8.5 to 1 compression 24 valve head v6. They have 198ft lbs of tq but it's at a lofty 5000rpm and it is in a 3400+lb car with long gearing in the rear end suited to take advantage of the turbo'd ones broad tq and power curve. But beware though, the VG30DE(VG30DETT and VG30DET are the turbo models) has a stout bottom end and if tuned for it can safely run a fairly big shot of spray.

I think whoever is better at driving will win :). Spin his ass out, that'll shut him up for a long time.

They are v6's and nissan did the same thing with them as mitsu did with the 4g63 and that is build them all the same and for boost. So this is a 8.5 to 1 compression 24 valve head v6. They have 198ft lbs of tq but it's at a lofty 5000rpm and it is in a 3400+lb car (http://www.hondacivicforum.com/post.asp?do=reply&messageID=336830&toStyle=tm#) with long gearing in the rear end suited to take advantage of the turbo'd ones broad tq and power curve. But beware though, the VG30DE(VG30DETT and VG30DET are the turbo models) has a stout bottom end and if tuned for it can safely run a fairly big shot of spray.
Wow, you couldn't be more wrong.

1. Mitsu did not build the turbo motors the same as the n/a versions. They had different compression, trannies, gearing,and sometimes materials.

2. Nissan did not do that either. The turbo motors have 8.5:1 compression, while the n/a models had 10.5:1 compression.

3. The n/a's andTT's had different trannies also. N/A's had 4.08 final drives, while the TT's had 3.69 final drives. Huge difference there. The N/A is well suited to "its own tranny".

Although it would seem like a huge cost savings to a manufacturer todo something so stupid as you implied, I've never seen a company actually resort to that kind of shortcut.

It weights about 1400 pounds more than my civic. Your saying that means nothing? 198 ft lbs. of torque isnt tons of torque on a 3500 pound car.
300ZX = 3219lbs.
93 Civic Sedan = 2520lbs.
Tell me again how this is a 1400lb difference?
What I'm saying is that your "700lb advantage" isn't gonna mean much to a 100ftlb torque deficiency.

» Jdm engine : VG30DE
» Year : 90-96
» Valve train : 24v-valve DOHC
» Jdm transmission : Hydraulic
» Displacement : 3.0L

» Horsepower : 222hp
» Torque : 198lbs-ft@4800rpm
» Compression : 8.5:1

» Price : 950.00$ (USD)




» Jdm engine : VG30DETT
» Year : 90-96
» Valve train : 24v-valve DOHC
» Jdm transmission : Hydraulic
» Displacement : 3.0L

» Horsepower : 280hp
» Torque : 285lbs-ft@4800rpm
» Compression : 8.5:1

» Price : 1350.00$ (USD)


1990-96 300ZX Transmission For Both Turbo and NA.
The transmission model is RS5R30A.
The 300ZX model is the same for both the NA and TT, but Nissan relocated the starter in the TT, and changed the outer and inner front cases. 1st 3.214

2nd 1.925

3rd 1.302

4th 1.000

5th 0.752



Reverse 3.369

I guess you need to call nissan and the internet to tell them they have all their specs wrong

Also another thing, dont talk to me about either of the Tib's "mighty" engines as they are half assed based on mitsu engines that I have been elbow deep in. And my slowest car would bitch slap your Tib's around like they are nothing.

i raced a tiburon the other day. jeezis, that thing was slow.

You did NOT get that from Nissan, so drop the bull**** lies. Why don't you post links to your authorized Nissan sites?
I'm a member of 300zxforums.com and own a turbo Z. Why don't you go over there and tell theENTIRE forum that they are all wrong and that the n/a has the same compr. ratio as the turbo models. And their FAQ's are wrong also:
TT: http://www.300zxforums.com/showpost.php?p=597689&postcount=1
N/A: http://www.300zxforums.com/showpost.php?p=597988&postcount=8

That's great that you happened to find the ratios for all the tranny gears except the FINALGEAR which I blantantly said was different!!!! Now isn't that all that matters?
Again, check the FAQ's. Point is, Nissan made the tranny ratio different for the N/A vs. the TT.
The entire Z community takes this as FACT.
But apparently you know more about the Z's than the owners do.


I never brought up the Tib in this thread. There's another thread for that.You'd think a"retired moderator"would know better.

as shark said, the tranny's are the same, you guys need to take into consideration that gearing goes beyond the tranny down the driveline. Did you forget the fact that maybe the differential played a part in "over all" gear ratios?

I love how you guys think that your couple extra hundred pounds lighter than the Z will make up for your lack of power and Tq. stock for stock, a NA Z32 will walk a civic, i've owned both, and there is no comparison. Sorry. In order for your little civic to put up a fight, you'd need every bolt on you could get your hands on and even then it's doubtful you'd win in the end. Vtec isn't going to win you this race. =P

also, 3500lbs? Are you kidding me? Yeah, maybe if each passenger weighed 250lbs and had a few dead bodies in the hatch

[sm=admin.gif]Don't fkk with marty. He knows his sh!t noobster

Well he doesn't know jack about Nissans.

So when are the mods banning you?

i think that if nooobs cant play nice it is time to send them to a time out ,or back to there own forum for nissans , not putting down nissans as i own one my self but kids like this need to chill out and think what the are saying first , and dont get to mad marty they just dont want to look dumb in front of every one ;)i really dont know who would win between the civic and the 300zx , i would think the z would but the driver cant be a idiot and know how to drive , i had a na 300zx and it was fun but not the fastest car around my turboed celica would blow its doors off , but a 300zx tt would kick my celica butt , just my 2 cents:D

Just because I'm a noob, doesn't give him the right to act like a jerk to me. I happen to know a lot about my own car, and I simply corrected him. I didn't go furtherandreply with a sarcastic comment such as this:
I guess you need to call nissan and the internet to tell them they have all their specs wrong

Or try toflex his HP muscle by creating a double post just to bring in a totally irrelavent statement to this thread such as this:
Also another thing, dont talk to me about either of the Tib's "mighty" engines as they are half assed based on mitsu engines that I have been elbow deep in. And my slowest car would bitch slap your Tib's around like they are nothing.

If he would like to start over and try to "rationally" prove to me that I and the rest of the Z community arewrong, by providing hard facts WITH links, then I'd be happy to reciprocate in the same fashion. I know he's upset that his statements are wrong, but he needs tojust admit it instead of getting upset and attacking me.

i saw two different 300zx running mid to low 16s last time i was at the track

yo you would totally pwn that NA especially when your Vtak kicks in DAYUM!!!

seriously the NA would destroy you he probably knows how to drive his car (you= ricer fly byes and sik front wheel peels) if anything you would beat him off the line cause he would spin and you would get the hole.

when are you guys gonna understand....its a CIVIC...try to drive a real car you might understand...

modding a civic is like gold plating a piece of poop sure it looks all "fly" but deep down it is still poop...

On HCF we respect our mods and Admins. Even when we know something. we wanna get on good terms with our community. Unless you don't plan on staying long, I'd watch it.

Years: 1990-1996
Other names reffered too:
Z32, 300ZX, "Z", Fairlady Z, 3Z, 300Z

NA = Normally Aspirated or Naturally Aspirated, or NON TURBO
TT = Twin Turbo
2+2 = 4 seats 2 in the front, 2 in the back
2+0 = 2 seats only

US Models:
2+0 TT T Tops
2+2 NA T Tops
2+0 NA T Tops
2+0 NA Convetable
2+0 NA Slicktop
Japan Models:
2+0 TT
2+2 TT
2+0 NA
2+2 NA

Engine code:
VG30DETT = Twin Turbo Zs
VG30DE = Non Turbo Zs

Engine:
All models:
V6 (6 cylinders)
Twin Cam
DOHC (Dual Over Head Cams)
3.0 Liter
4 valves per per cylinder 24 valves total
90-95 OBD1 computers
96 OBD2 computers, for emmissions regulations

Horsepower:
NA 222hp @ 6400rpm, 198lbs-ft @ 4400rpm
Manual TT 300hp @ 6400rpm, 283lbs-ft @ 3600rpm
Automatic TT 280hp @ 6400rpm, 283lbs-ft @ 3600rpm


Twin Turbo Zs:
1/4 Mile time - 13.8-14.1
0-60mph - 5.5
Uses twin T22/25 Turbos and runs 9.5 PSI stock
Stock Turbos are good for up to 16-17 psi (370 – 400 rwhp)

The clutch is rated at 432 ft/lbs stock
The stock TT comes with 370cc injectors

Drive Train Loss:
Manual has 13 – 18% Loss
Automatic has 16 – 20% Loss


Model 1996 300ZX Twin Turbo
Powertrain Layout Front Engine / RWD
Base Price $33 000

Dimensions
WheelBase 2451 mm / 96.5 in
Length 4305 mm / 169.5 in
Height 1250 mm / 49.2 in
Width 1791 mm / 70.5 in
Weight 1579 kgs / 3480 lbs
Front / Rear Track F 1496 mm / 58.9 in
R 1554 mm / 61.2 in

Engine
Configuration Twin Turbocharged V6
Valvetrain DOHC, 4 valves / cylinder
Displacement 2960 cc / 180.6 cu in
Power 223.7 Kw / 300.0 bhp @ 6400 rpm
Torque 383.7 Nm / 283.0 ft lbs @ 3600 rpm
Bore 87.0 mm / 3.4 in
Stroke 83.0 mm / 3.3 in
Compression Ratio 8.5:1
BHP / Liter Not Available
Redline Not Available

Transmission
Type 5-Speed Manual
Final Drive 3.69:1
1st Gear Ratio 3.21:1
2nd Gear Ratio 1.93:1
3rd Gear Ratio 1.30:1
4th Gear Ratio 1.00:1
5th Gear Ratio 0.75:1
6th Gear Ratio Not Available

Chassis & Body
Steering Rack & Pinion w/ Power Assist
Tire Sizes F 225/50ZR-16
R 245/45ZR-16
Brake Types Vented Discs
Brake Size F 279 mm / 11.0 in
R 297 mm / 11.7 in
Available ABS Yes
Body Material Unit Steel

Performance
Top Speed 155.0 mph / 249.4 kph
0 - 30 mph 2.0 seconds
0 - 60 mph 5.5 seconds
0 - 100 mph 14.6 seconds
0 - ¼ mile 14.1 seconds
Lateral Acceleration 0.91g
EPA City / Hwy 18 / 24 mpg

indepth nice

i have a 88T and i put $50 of mods into it and got like 30 more hp can any civic match that? or beat it?

not counting go fast stikas lol

Thanks for the specs 90red300zx. and Welcome.

Even though you have him beat on weight, the specs for the honda don't stand up

Your car roughly weighs about 2600 lbs, and an NA with T-Tops will roughly weigh 3200 lbs, both without drivers.

Considering that both your cars are stock, the Z will take you, everyday of the week. The only snowball's chance in hell you have of beating him, is if he spins the tires when you take off from the line, but if you go from a roll, you might as well not waste your gas.

92-95 Civic Si/Ex D16Z6 16 Valve SOHC VTEC
1590cc
9.2:1 c.r
PGM-FI MPFI 125 bhp @ 7200 rpm 106 lbft @ 5200

and honestly, if we put our cars right next to eachother in a parking lot, mine would turn more heads, everytime...
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g294/Red300zx/P1010026.jpg

ORIGINAL: Vtakpwns

indepth nice

i have a 88T and i put $50 of mods into it and got like 30 more hp can any civic match that? or beat it?

not counting go fast stikas lol


Lets not feed the trolls guys.. Just ignore him.

Hes not a troll, hes just an ass

an ass indeed

i eat teh civics 4 breakfast

thats funny, so do I...

I love my civics with a little bit o' sugar on top!

i like it when they squirm and try to resist then the mighty hand of the Z kills them instantly-quote from the bible z-edition Fairlady 10:3

Didn't you guys know!!!!

V-TEC makes a Lambourghini look like a Geo Metro only running on 2 cylinders, with flat tires!

true dat yo like teh SN says VTAK PWNS!!!

no ones saying civics are fast. the 300zx is a sports oriented car, the civic is an economy car. Btw his car ways closer to 2300 than 2600. But still i think the 300 would take it, but you have to realize, the civic gets 36 miles to the gallon and is a good spacious, affordable maintainable car. And while you may beat it in a race, most people dont by civics to be fast. Just my two cents.

we scared them all off haha suxors fo yo

most teenagers buy them to rice them out and make "Sports cars" out of them ie fart can a wing taller than the car itself and a obxoxious system in their car oh wait and altezzas whoooo i can feel the speed

well there are some that do that, but most on this forum pursue tasteful modding, and some dont mod at all, they use this as a resource to adequately maintain their civics and solve the few problems that come up with honda carss.

im saying thatthe "view"of civic owners (described in previous post)need to fall in line and know that any other car will beat them and that is what the import society has flagged them as stereotyping if you will

yes society has flagged a stereo type, but you have to realize most on this forum, aren't the ones who started that stereo type. If someone wants to get a great first car for school that gets great mileage and has great reliability, and then decides it would be more fun to drive with another 20 hp, all the power to them. You can make a car faster through moddign without thinking that car is the best in the world. (i know i have more fun with my bolt on set up than i did before, and i still make the same mileage and know my car isn't the fastest out there.)

i bought a 300zx as my 1st car and i am a sophmore in community college my mpg is ok but still the cockyness of some of the honduh owners just ticks me off like that one mod marty? asshat and a half

i understand what you're saying about much of the civic community. I didn't look at the details before this and honestly don't want to look through them to sort them out, but Marty does know quite a bit, and he has several cars WAY faster than his civic. Just to let you know. I don't know what the argument was, and i dont want to get into it really, but give the forum a chance. There are many on this forum that do know quite a lot.

ORIGINAL: Vtakpwns

any other car will beat them


civic's can be a funautoxing car with the right setup (which is what i'm going for), but in stock form they blow,but i think i figureup that i only spend about $350-400 on gas a year, so that's fine by me for a first car.i don't have vtec and i don't really care for it that much, and many automotive companies are using the vtec concept and incorporating it into their motors to have a fuel enconomy / performance balance.

and for the civic community that you're describing in your posts, i don't think anyone likes them here either, i don't go around trying to race mustangs and being a retard, i just like civics because of the way they look (or rather can look)

Putting performance mods on a civic in any way is kinda like getting your grandma plastic surgery for her saggy tits.

-or-


Trying to make a ferrari into a dune buggy. Its not what the manufacturer intended the car to be.

Its just something you don't do.

Theres a good reason why Honda made Civics into econoboxes, and its quite simple. They were made for comuting, and to go pick up grocieries. Why would you try to make something that is 120ish HP +/- into a performance automobile? Its not built/intended to be fast, its built to have good mileage, and intended to be a cheap solution for the lower middle/low income individuals.

I mean, a Civic is great if you want to haul around your friends, or if you have kids, but if you're dead set on owning a performance 4 door sedan/coupe, then go get an Lancer Evo or a WRX STI.

But when you do show up at the street races, leave the racing to the big boys.

I've met tons of Civic/Integra/Scion owners, who brag about having 150ishHP (with/without a dyno)

Answer me these questions:

Really, is 150HP +/- really a performance/sports car?
Do you guys really enjoy making your car sound like a weed whacker/trimmer?
Why do you put a HUGE spoiler/wing on a car that is FWD? If aything, it creates more drag on the car!
If you can't afford to paint your car, why would you put on the unpainted body kit?

Good post dude.

ok i my self am getting a little annoyed with this post , yes the z is a sports car and the civic is a econobox, but what i like about the civic is the after market support . you can buy a civic for around $2000 and with about the same amount have a pretty quick car , i have 2 civic one i paid $800 for and the other $200 ,now the cheap one had a blown motor and the other one was riced a bit ( flat black paint , fart can, a pipe and some paper for a intake , so on and so on) but the motor was just rebuilt ( the kid that owned it blew it up my buds shop rebuilt it and the kid could not pay , so i got the car) so far i have put together a turbo kit for less than $1200 , upgraded the shocks and suspention, and did a few body mods , no kit i dont like the way most of them look ,it is a civic and i want it to look like a civic;)i think after all is said and done i will have around $4000 - $5000 involved and a car that would give any stock z a run for its money, now i know that u can mod a z and have more power but you will spend 2 times as much. if you look at the percentage of hp gained to money spent i think you will find the civic comes out on top. that is why people buy them they are cheap , cheap to mod and you get more hp per dollar from them , most of the time, now i know where most of you z guys are coming from as i had one once they are great cars but the after market just is not there , i have the same problem with my celica too , everthing has to be made custom or it is very very costly ....... trust me i am not saying everyone should buy a civic or go and try to take on vettes or porches with them but when you can hang with a vette with a car that would ofcosted a small down payment on one ,it just makes you feel good:Di know when i spank the mustang owners around here with my celica i feel darn good ( no hard feeling towards mustangs guys , just had to show a few kids that mom & dads mustang should not be raced, ..... kids[sm=smiley29.gif]) sorry for the long post , i just need to say something.

^^^I'm gonna have to disagree with you. You stated that you got your Civic for $200. Well, I got my Z for $300 with a bad ring. I know that I can get another one for that price too.It just needs to be re-ringed.
Anyways, now that we can get both cars for the same price, why would you buy the Civic over the Z for a go-fast car? You also stated that it's cheaper to modify the Civic. Again, that's completely false. The Z is already turbocharged. You'd have to spend $2k just to catch up to where the Z is stock. Then the race can begin.
We've already mentioned to you that for less than $100, we can add 50hp. Do you have any idea how fast it can be with the $2k you spent just getting yours turboed? The VG can hold 500+hp stock. You guys need to either do some expensive swap, or fully rebuild a motor with $1500 in parts.

I'm not a Civic hater at all. I love all cars and nkow that Civics can be fast. I just think that some of the owners are blinded by the hype that got started. If you truly love it for the looks, or for the economy, then thats great and I support you. But don't try to lull others into thinking it's the best bang for the buck car to modify and race.

So lets here, now its my turn to start picking **** apart. "you can buy a civic for around $2000 and with about the same amount have a pretty quick car". For 2000 you can piece toghether a turbo kit on a stock block, and at best get n extra 80hp...*SAFELY. Or drop it on a body kit, a pepboys muffler, intake, some spinner hub cap covers, and LED windshield squirter nozzles. You're "$4k-$5k that can give a stock Z a run for its money" is kinda funny, its even more funny that you think we would have to spend twice as much to get as much gains. A stage 3 TT will pull 400hp...stage 3= exhaust, chip, and intake @ 14-15lbs. Do the math, you can hit stage 3 for under $2k. Thats 400hp for the price of your civic. Lets see ANY civic put down 400hp with <$2k. The aftermarket is here now, trust me. We have a lot more support than we ever did, and it just keeps growing. Everyday venders and DIY guys are making innovative new products for our cars. AEM finally put the EMS out for our car (which installed and tuned on a practically stock Z gained 40rwhp alone...only mods on the Z were intake and catback exhaust). We now have a few different options for aftermarket manifolds, bigger turbo selections with more innovative designs (smaller turbos with bigger power than before), more aftermarket support with tuning etc.

now just for reference, im not opposed to civics, im opposed to people who talk about things they have no idea about *cough* half the people in this thread *cough* i think mybrokenblinker is the only one in here so far that doesnt make himself seem like a total "well he said that itz a more faster car and i seed it on streetfire so it really iz yo" toolbag. If you do a civic right i respect it just as i would any other car. Hell, i know quite a few civics that would put me in my place (500+rwhp on a hatch), but in retrospect, how much did they spend getting it to tha position? Im opposed to the ricer bitches who think that with dc sport headers, a cat back (if that), an intake from pep boys, and some altezzas, that they drive the baddest piece of **** on the road...they really do...just not in the way they think...

ok, i am not a huge honda fan but i am not going to bash them , granted there are alot of kids out there that think it can be a sports car and you know i dont see to many 300zx in superstreet, or import tuner , so the civic has to have somthing going for it , not saying the z shouldn't be on the cover but there just is not alot of them , the only point i was trying to make is not every one can find a 200 dollar z but there are alot more civics and support for them they make cheap power , now i was not saying i need 500hp to bet a z i only need 1/3 of that as i dont have the weight to deal with ,but that is a whole other topic. if you want to get in a pissing match i know where i could get a 92 supra tt that needs a little work for $200 and i think if i drop $2000 into the motor i dont think your z would come close to it in a straight line . i dont want to arguee about this just dont think the z is the best car around and dont pick on all the civic owners just because a few of them like rice, if it was not for a civic owner saying my civic can beat your car the import world would not be where it is and the after market would not care about the z ,civic, supra, or any import . there is a lot of hype arond the civic but only because it has proved it can compete with bigger cars and win . truthfully i am a toyota fan as i own a celica , my wife owns the civic and i cant beleave how cheap it is to build up compared to my toyota and it nets more power to money spent , that was the only point i was making.

ok the point i was trying to make is, you spent $2000 on a extra 100hp or so right, i spent $2000 on mods and got a extra 150hp or so , which would be a better hp per dollar ratio , granted i had to do a little more work and it would depend on a good tune and what civic motor i started with. but that was all i was trying to say . i did not mean the best bang for your buck to race just one of the best dollar per hp as everthing is a little cheaper because there are so many of them.

Think about what you guys are debating... It's like comparing New York to Beverly Hills.

Let’s use the 1990 of both cars.


1990 Civic

Model

Civic


Year

1990


Engine Size

1.5L - 4 Cylinders • 1.6L - 4 Cylinders


Seating Capacity

5 Seats


Class

Sedan


Fuel Type

Gasoline


Pricing

Original List Price

$6,635 - $10,245


Current Retail Price

$1,039 - $1,555


Current Wholesale Price

$298 - $523 (Update Date: 1/1/06)



And 1990 300ZX NA[/b]


Model

300ZX


Year

1990


Engine Size

3.0L - 6 Cylinders


Seating Capacity

2 Seats • 4 Seats


Fuel Type

Gasoline


Style

Performance


Pricing

Original List Price

$28,600 - $33,000


Current Retail Price

$3,760 - $4,592


Current Wholesale Price

$1,619 - $1,976 (Update Date: 1/1/06)


Night and day here people. Even the Non turbo version is in a different category than the civic. A Civic new: $10,000 loaded or an NA 300ZX: $33,000 loaded. That is like comparing a $33,000 Z to a $100,000 Ferrari. You are talking 2 totally different classes of cars.

Don't get me wrong. As stated, when you turbo a civic or do a nasty engine swap you will see a lot more power out of it and you can have a very fast car.
But don't try to compare a lightly modified bolt on Civic to a 300ZXTT. Especially a modified TT.

Maybe, just maybe you will compete with the NA Z, but most NA drivers modify their cars as much as they can without adding nitrous or Turbos. (Some of us even add nitrous to our NAsso be careful)

Drive around... Count the civics you see... And count the 300ZXs that you see.
A civic is a common fixture in the scenery around you. You will see hundreds in a day. Seriously, hundreds. There are MONTHS that go buy that I don’t see a single Z.

For most of us that drive a Z (yes I drive one as well) it's more about the rarity of the car and class that the car displays. A Z is a tasteful machine.

When you are in a Z and you pull up to a stoplight and there is a 300zx, supra, mustang and a corvette or any other car lined up next to you, look at the other drivers and the people around you. They will ALL be looking at the Z. It's like a magnet for your eyes. Its exotic looking to the every day Joe and It’s rare to see one. You see those other cars a dozen times a day.
People point with mouths wide open as you drive by in a Z.

And with a Z being a Z... Z owners know what goes into owning and modifying a Z. Most of us are slightly older (25+) and work decent jobs so we can afford to maintain, repair, and modify our babies.
A typical civic owner is a teenager (at least in my area).

A Z owner is more than a car driver. He is an enthusiast. Because a Z is not a car...a Z is a Z!

EVERY time I'm lined up at a light next to a civic or on the highway and one comes up. They always want to see the Z go so they taunt you. The results are usually the same unless they have some sort of monster under the hood. And forget about it if we are on winding roads. A civic is no match for a Z in the corners. Especially if you upgrade your suspension.

As for the original topic of this post:

Go for it man... What do you have to lose? Just don't bet money on teh race and don’t be surprised if you don’t beat him, but who knows I’ve lost tocivics before, but around here engine swaps and huge turbos are “the in thing”.

Good luck. Let us know the outcome. I’m curious how this ends. LOL

And for those of you that don’t know what the New England Rally is.

Click the link in my sig. Some of you may want to take part.

Very good point. As much as people will disagree with me here. A Honda civic is primarily a Economy car. Even though with modifications if can be made quick, we should not be comparing it to a Sports car with a much bigger engine.

i think that is all i was trying to say , and the way newenglandrally fells towards his z is the way i well about my celica , so i relate i am not your teen rice boy i am almost 30 and have worked on a lot of cars , i was just saying if you dont want to spend a large amont of money for something that is fun to drive and will give you a good education on tuning , i think the civic is a good start , i would not want to screw up a z to learn that to much boost and no fuel is bad , a $200 civic would be better :Dand to newenglandrally nice to met you , you said what i was trying to say , i guess i was just trying the wrong way .

damn you got some weight in a civic if it weights 2600 pounds. i weight my rear stripped eg hatch at the drag strip with me in it and 3/4 tank of gas and it weight right in at 2040 lbs

i know my 93 coupe with a auto and a large mess in the trunk came in at 2315 lb :eek:

ORIGINAL: HondaMotoRsports

So lets here, now its my turn to start picking **** apart. "you can buy a civic for around $2000 and with about the same amount have a pretty quick car". For 2000 you can piece toghether a turbo kit on a stock block, and at best get n extra 80hp...*SAFELY. Or drop it on a body kit, a pepboys muffler, intake, some spinner hub cap covers, and LED windshield squirter nozzles. You're "$4k-$5k that can give a stock Z a run for its money" is kinda funny, its even more funny that you think we would have to spend twice as much to get as much gains. A stage 3 TT will pull 400hp...stage 3= exhaust, chip, and intake @ 14-15lbs. Do the math, you can hit stage 3 for under $2k. Thats 400hp for the price of your civic. Lets see ANY civic put down 400hp with <$2k. The aftermarket is here now, trust me. We have a lot more support than we ever did, and it just keeps growing. Everyday venders and DIY guys are making innovative new products for our cars. AEM finally put the EMS out for our car (which installed and tuned on a practically stock Z gained 40rwhp alone...only mods on the Z were intake and catback exhaust). We now have a few different options for aftermarket manifolds, bigger turbo selections with more innovative designs (smaller turbos with bigger power than before), more aftermarket support with tuning etc.

now just for reference, im not opposed to civics, im opposed to people who talk about things they have no idea about *cough* half the people in this thread *cough* i think mybrokenblinker is the only one in here so far that doesnt make himself seem like a total "well he said that itz a more faster car and i seed it on streetfire so it really iz yo" toolbag. If you do a civic right i respect it just as i would any other car. Hell, i know quite a few civics that would put me in my place (500+rwhp on a hatch), but in retrospect, how much did they spend getting it to tha position? Im opposed to the ricer bitches who think that with dc sport headers, a cat back (if that), an intake from pep boys, and some altezzas, that they drive the baddest piece of **** on the road...they really do...just not in the way they think...



its pretty simple go to ebay buy this(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K24A4-K24-Longblock-Motor-Engine-Accord-CRV-RSX-EP3-K20_W0QQitemZ200068529746QQihZ010QQcategoryZ33615Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) its 400 bucks throw a k20 head on it, get a tranny for it for a couple hundred bucks, get the mounts, ecu, harness whatever else you need along with some cp pistons for under 2000 and it would walk all over your 400whp 300z

so general concensus? both cool cars for different purposes. Yes 300zx are faster stock, but like any car, the civic can be made hellafast if you have money. And i respect any well built car, regardless.

and i almost forgot to mention, even though they have fwd which sucks, one of the reasons the civics can be made so fast is that they are so light. Not saying that would make them faster than z's with the same money in them, just saying that it helps a lot to have a car that weighs under 2000. I've seen a 200 hp civic stomp a 400 hp supra. maybe in the long run the supra would catch it, but in the quarter, the civic won.

i don't even know why people want to race cars that are clearly faster than them, it's just stupidity. civic's are not fast in anyway, i own one myself, and i like how it looks and like the fact of how long they last. but if people that racein little civics were to get in a corvette, camaro, mustang, Z, or anyother modified muscle car (a real automobile), then they will finally realize that what they are doing to their civic is just plain out pointless unless you do a crazy motor setup and monster turbo or something that's beyond this world. my friends got a 500+ horsepower camaro and it's beast to say the least. a 500+ horsepower civic is nothing remotely close to the power of the camaro, even if it weighs a ton less. in the future i hope to do a crazy setup and gut the entire car and race it on the track for fun with other cars in the same class, but you can guarantee that i will be owning a muscle car in the future (or a Z)

Why do you guys constantly pull the "weight" card?

I have a 2 Liter bottle of Coca-Cola... It has more litres than most your Hondas engines!

Even if you put in your precious K24A4 motor, you'd still be slower!

K24A4 Found in: 2003-2005 Honda Accord, 2003-2006 Honda Element Displacement: 2354cc Bore and Stroke: 87 mm x 99 mm (3.43x3.90 inches) Compression: 9.7:1 Power: 160hp (119kW) @ 5500rpm Torque: 161ft·lbf (218N·m) @ 4500rpm Redline: 6500RPM
THATS 160HP AT THE CRANK! Your motor is still making less HP and torque! Even with your weight advantage, you still will loose!

You sound intelligent. Maybe I would be too if could figure out how to copy and paste from wikipedia.

the k20a2 has 200 hp.
and weight matters because f=ma
therefore simple science tells you that you can cut the weight in half and double acceleration.

ORIGINAL: riceburner700

ORIGINAL: HondaMotoRsports

So lets here, now its my turn to start picking **** apart. "you can buy a civic for around $2000 and with about the same amount have a pretty quick car". For 2000 you can piece toghether a turbo kit on a stock block, and at best get n extra 80hp...*SAFELY. Or drop it on a body kit, a pepboys muffler, intake, some spinner hub cap covers, and LED windshield squirter nozzles. You're "$4k-$5k that can give a stock Z a run for its money" is kinda funny, its even more funny that you think we would have to spend twice as much to get as much gains. A stage 3 TT will pull 400hp...stage 3= exhaust, chip, and intake @ 14-15lbs. Do the math, you can hit stage 3 for under $2k. Thats 400hp for the price of your civic. Lets see ANY civic put down 400hp with <$2k. The aftermarket is here now, trust me. We have a lot more support than we ever did, and it just keeps growing. Everyday venders and DIY guys are making innovative new products for our cars. AEM finally put the EMS out for our car (which installed and tuned on a practically stock Z gained 40rwhp alone...only mods on the Z were intake and catback exhaust). We now have a few different options for aftermarket manifolds, bigger turbo selections with more innovative designs (smaller turbos with bigger power than before), more aftermarket support with tuning etc.

now just for reference, im not opposed to civics, im opposed to people who talk about things they have no idea about *cough* half the people in this thread *cough* i think mybrokenblinker is the only one in here so far that doesnt make himself seem like a total "well he said that itz a more faster car and i seed it on streetfire so it really iz yo" toolbag. If you do a civic right i respect it just as i would any other car. Hell, i know quite a few civics that would put me in my place (500+rwhp on a hatch), but in retrospect, how much did they spend getting it to tha position? Im opposed to the ricer bitches who think that with dc sport headers, a cat back (if that), an intake from pep boys, and some altezzas, that they drive the baddest piece of **** on the road...they really do...just not in the way they think...



its pretty simple go to ebay buy this(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K24A4-K24-Longblock-Motor-Engine-Accord-CRV-RSX-EP3-K20_W0QQitemZ200068529746QQihZ010QQcategoryZ33615Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) its 400 bucks, get a tranny for it for a couple hundred bucks, get the mounts, ecu, harness whatever else you need along with some cp pistons for under 2000 and it would walk all over your 400whp 300z

so stfu noob

LMFAO!!! $2000 on the engine and all the internals, I bet it's also reliable horsepower too. You pay a price for a damn reason so it's reliable or did you not get the memo? Oh yeah!! plus there is a pretty handsome fee to have a shop do all that work, I guess you weren't thinking that there are people who don't have a million dollar shop like you to do a swap like that in. Some of us have to go to a shop and charge labor to have work done. I don't know anyone have a price on a engine swap, I'm no math wiz but I think that would double the $2000 price, so instead of your unrealistic price tag in all actuality it's more like $4,000. Unless you have a video of a KA24 walking a 400hp Z you're comment is useless.

[sm=WTFsgign.gif]

Gear members against the Nooby trolls. Why are we even fighting with someone who has a name of VTAKPWNS? Don't feed these fkking trolls. They should just go fkkpunch themselves.

ORIGINAL: riceburner700

its pretty simple go to ebay buy this(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K24A4-K24-Longblock-Motor-Engine-Accord-CRV-RSX-EP3-K20_W0QQitemZ200068529746QQihZ010QQcategoryZ33615Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) its 400 bucks, get a tranny for it for a couple hundred bucks, get the mounts, ecu, harness whatever else you need along with some cp pistons for under 2000 and it would walk all over your 400whp 300z

so stfu noob


yea, and think about it this way n00b. You have to do a motor swap to keep up, we just have to toss on some boltons. And BTW, no im pretty sure that wouldnt walk all over my 400whp Z. Ive raced one of my friends H22a swapped 2nd gen accords, that was about 100hp ago, and it was a pretty easy race...if you wanna keep goin with this, find someone in MD with a K20 swap and tell them to bring a ****in video camera so i can get you to stfu already.

and btw, the K20 is not god of motors. If you seriously think a K20 swap civic would "walk all over my 400whp 300z" then you need to pull your head out of your ass. PS...the Z isnt as heavy as everyone thinks. All the given weights for the 300zx are fully loaded with 175 or 200 (if not 250...i cant remember which it is) pound driver and passanger. Most of the time you dont have 400-500lbs of people in the car, a full tank of gas, and full luggage. So dont even get me started with a hp/weight ratio. plus, atleast our cars are the right wheel drive...

Were not trolls, were just here to make sure that your head doesn't get bigger than your muffler...

http://www.forensick.net/visual/random/HondaCivic-MountainDew.jpg

accords are a lot heavier than civics. And i think the k20 civic would get off the line better, but the z would catch it dont get me wrong. im just saying thta 200hp in a 1800-1900 pound car is quite a bit. Then if you boost it.... Not trashing yalls cars though, i'd love to own a z

yea, 200hp in a light car moves, but not as much as riceburner believes it does. Like i said, i will respect a well done civic just as much as any other well done car, but as riceburner has shown, its the mentality that most people associate with civics and ricers (i.e. his). Like i said, one of my friends has a 500hp hatch, and yea, that thing will eat me alive, it would take ~750whp Supra/300zx to take it down, but then you look at everything thats gone into that car to make it 500hp, then you add that up and we could have that 750+hp Supra or Z with the same amount (if not less) money and parts.
and the kids accord had a bit of weight reduc, but the h22a is also a more powerful motor isnt it? and this was supposedly "cam'd and tuned" from what my friend was telling me (it was his friends car).

Just a simple question, what about Riceburner's civic is rice? Is it his tubo setup, his rims, exhaust... Because I just dont see it. So please inform me.

yeah that seems about right with the weight and hp stuff. Since the civ weighs about 2/3 of the other, it should take 3/2 the power to make the same acceleration...if you negate wind resistance which is why i said i thought the z would catch it in the end.

Your'e better off just congratulating him on his victory before you guys even race and just drive home.

http://a53.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/42/l_5cae3e1338ccf51702d1fb8bb4f22504.jpg

need i say more?
in most cases you wont win and still be retarded....

Vtak, you my friend are the definition of a virgin. Even though I thought virgins were largly mythological.

[sm=lockeddance.gif]this is just pointless, and it's not gonna die on it's own

hey can you do me a favor? next time you are in your moms room can you grab some of my clothes?

thanks

Yeah, I'll do that and take them back to the salvation army.

good cause i didnt want to see you walk around naked

Yup, makes sense.

you know whats funny it takes more torque to take off my lug nuts than your honduh will ever produce...

ORIGINAL: Vtakpwns

hey can you do me a favor? next time you are in your moms room can you grab some of my clothes?

thanks


are you saying you wear women's clothing?

is that it? weak...
do you need me to break it down for ya...
if i wore ladies clothes id ask him to gimme his moms clothes but i didnt did i...

tool...

Honestly fellow 3zc guys, youre making yourselves look like asses.....we hate it when people come to our forum and talk **** so why be immature and do it ourselves.....a Z and a civic are in 2 way different classes, street racing gets people killed, grow up and keep it on the track, you want to build a civic go for it, what do you guys care? we have seen people rice out Z's too so dont pull that card, just be mature and let it go.

All of the 300zx specs posted by Z owners were correct, and as much as an asshole that i really am i apologize on behalf of the Z owners, we're better than this

have fun
Stay safe

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! we win!!!! beat em on their turf.....
or should i be accustomed to a slow response cause they drive a civic?

i'm just thankful you came to forum, i don't what we would do without you

300zx's run about 12,000 for a 96 here localy.

hmm

my eg was 3,000 dollars so according to that if i already had 9,000 grand into my civic it would easily be over 400whp at the 12,000mark and then you talk about putting 2,000 dollars into upgrades. who do you think will win?

Noone wants a 96Z

you can find highly modded 90-94's in the 12k range

I was just here to correct your mod's error in the N/A vs. TT stats. But now that everyone agrees, it's all good.:D

The Z guys are just having thier fun. Don't take anything seriously. Just play along and have fun!;)


ORIGINAL: mybrokenblinker

And i think the k20 civic would get off the line better, but the z would catch it dont get me wrong.

Since when does FWD>RWD off the line? Blasphemy!!!!

^ yeah, like the sig though

what the hell is going on over here? last time I saw this thread, it was like, 5 replys or something...could some one care to explain or should I skim through

don't worry about it, some of the 300Zx owners were just showing how much better their cars are than civics, i must say what a great task.......

read away

in a nutshell a few noobs from our forum came over and defended the Z which an NA z would infact beat your civiv. thats just how it is....

everything should be fine now

ORIGINAL: Sharkracer

I was just here to correct your mod's error in the N/A vs. TT stats. But now that everyone agrees, it's all good.:D

The Z guys are just having thier fun. Don't take anything seriously. Just play along and have fun!;)


ORIGINAL: mybrokenblinker

And i think the k20 civic would get off the line better, but the z would catch it dont get me wrong.

Since when does FWD>RWD off the line? Blasphemy!!!!


Dont worry, i know quite a bit about that kinda stuff. I'm not retarted. I just meant that even accounting for the deficit of front wheel drive, i think on the street both cars would have many issues hooking up with DOT approved tires. But the lighter weight might give the civ the advantage...for like the first 10 feet lol.

man you guys are awesome with comebacks. Like, at first i just thought you were morons with riced out Z's hwo wrong was i? These guys are the next generation George Carlin. You know what, let's just give them around of applause of how they repped there own forum. You give people who drive nissans a bad name. Acctualy you know what. How come everytime a troll comes over with either a mustang or a nissan or a toyota they all have 400whp+. If you really do why dont you show us some fuc.king pictures. Or maybe you should just go jerk off to some trannies.

ORIGINAL: johnnyGofast

man you guys are awesome with comebacks. Like, at first i just thought you were morons with riced out Z's hwo wrong was i? These guys are the next generation George Carlin. You know what, let's just give them around of applause of how they repped there own forum. You give people who drive nissans a bad name. Acctualy you know what. How come everytime a troll comes over with either a mustang or a nissan or a toyota they all have 400whp+. If you really do why dont you show us some fuc.king pictures. Or maybe you should just go jerk off to some trannies.


ouch spelling owns you!!

so you can tell if a car has 400hp by a picture? you're amazing

Why dont you review the thread and then that might answer your question.

i would like to see a dyno sheet with your hcf name on it and a video of the car

ORIGINAL: ericnjttz
so you can tell if a car has 400hp by a picture? you're amazing


LAWL!!!! owned.