Hi,
I'm new to this forum and was wondering about boosting an engine...I have a 98' Civic DX hatchback and i'm going to be swaping in an engine sometime soon. My plans are to use a Full Race 500hp turbo kit on it in the future but was wondering if i should go for the B16B and replace the pistons so that it can handle the boost but still rev high or go with a B18C1 GSR motor and not do much to it? The Full Race site says that they're 500hp kit works on a stock motor. Then there is the B16A which would allow me to swap and get the turbo quicker. What do you guys recommend?

I`d go for the GSR if your planning on boosting. Don`t use an b16b, you`ll ruin it by boosting an beautiful N/A engine.

ORIGINAL: Nick b16

I`d go for the GSR if your planning on boosting. Don`t use an b16b, you`ll ruin it by boosting an beautiful N/A engine.



uuggghhh :eek:

Go with an LS/VTEC, or maybe a b20

Did i say something wrong?

LS, cheap and reliable

agreed^^^

Aight...Thanks for the imput

ORIGINAL: Nick b16

Did i say something wrong?


gsr is a good motor for a n/a in my opinion since the compression is so high in it.

i would either say the b20 or b16

ORIGINAL: mxs

LS, cheap and reliable


my friend had an LS in his 92 hatch and it was boosted to 18 psi on 110 race fuel for a long time before it streched the head bolts enough to not let the head gasket seal.

and another friend with a LS in his hatch with a 75 shot that lasted for 15 10lb bottles and it blew up at the track. he went 13.1 and it blew up and had to get tow'd home in a 2 1/2 drive

IMO if you want a cheap motor to boost go with the LS
if you want the rev range of the honda's engine then go with the B18C or B16A and have fun with the rev'ing capabilities of them.

retarded question coming......brace yourselves.....wats an LS?:(

an ls is a b18b or b18a from a integra basicly a non-vetec b-series

oooo ok...and how much does one of them go for?

Have you ever driven a 500hp car? Do you know what's involved to make a car of that power work the least bit reliabely? Sounds like you're pipe dreaming.

^ x2

You don't just put on a "kit" and walla, 500hp.

lol...i know, but the kit is built for 500, it's full race, it's made for that. anyways i do want the high rev's so i'll prob go for the GSR or the B16A.

the idea was to start off with around 250 hp, a mustang gt killer but i figure that between the engine swap and the bolt on turbo kit with tuning to make it streetable will be the start, i just wanna build a monster and 500 hp is a nice round number and it's half way from 1000 which is my dream to have one day, a 1000hp car...not a civic cuz that would just be rediculous! and dangerous.

500hp is going to be ridiculous to try and handle. Not to mention, like the other guys said, its going to bea long ass road to get there.

500 - 1,000 horsepower?

i suggest you start with a supra or a skyline.

Let me put it this way.

200whp in a Civic is more than a handful, but I hope you're ready to spend some serious money on making 500whp. 5K will probably not be enough to get you there.

^+1 whats wrong with boosting a b16 ?

smaller displacement with already high compression.

so boosting a b16 with 6 psi with a good tune for an every driver = bad idea?

the dude that i'm prob going to be working with on the civic has one of his own, a D16 custom turbo kit using a WRX turbo, so he knows what hes doing...he doesn't have it boosted much and my estimate is prob 180-200hp with his car, it is a daily driver and who says 200hp in a civic is a hand-full, look at the other cars on the street with 200+, the Mustang GT's got 300, as long as ur not mashing the gas every time ur driving the car it should be fine, i'm really just trying to get the best engine to be boosted...GSR or B16, it's a given that i'm willing to put in money for it, i might be new here, but i'm not new to the game. i just want to know ur opinions on which engine is the best for boosting

ur retarded dude. And you don't think 300whp in a gt is a handful?..have you driven a gt stock at that?..They are a handful, and the fact that its RWD, it goes side ways on you real easy.

As yes, the buddy that knows everything. Classic.

At that much power you can expect to go through a few set of axles, a few sets of tires, a few transmissions, a lot of racing gas, and may be in need of an engine rebuild by the end of just one hard racing season, assuming you can even get the car running and drive it.

You are new to this game.

Again i'll say...all i'm looking for is for someone to tell me what is the best bang for the buck engine to boost! I'm not looking for people to say i'm a retard...and yes i've driven a gt, and it's not a handful if you don't mash the gas every two seconds.

go with a d16z6 drop 2800-3000 into it and run 250-300whp put the other 2000 into suspension and you will be more than happy

ORIGINAL: Sldwys11687

Again i'll say...all i'm looking for is for someone to tell me what is the best bang for the buck engine to boost! I'm not looking for people to say i'm a retard...and yes i've driven a gt, and it's not a handful if you don't mash the gas every two seconds.


Dude, a 300hp RWD car is a completely different monster from any high powered fwd. If you were reallya "veteran in this game" you'd know about a little thing called torque steer. Not to mention, good luck hooking up off the line on street tires...

neither the GSR nor the b16 are considered "top of the line" for boost apps. As I mentioned on the first page, build an LS/VTEC

What is the redline for the LS/VTEC and don't cars have to swap the same year engine or higher to be legal?

ORIGINAL: Sldwys11687

What is the redline for the LS/VTEC and don't cars have to swap the same year engine or higher to be legal?


heh, are you going to try and make a 500hp civic pass emissions?! :D

and why are you so concerned with redline?

^^^ truth!

Noobs get laughed at. It's how nature intended.

I'm afraid there is no fast track to this sport guy. No one is going to want to hold you hand through it, especially when everything you could want to know is out there at your disposal. You know what I mean? We've got better things to do. If you show some iniative though, come on here showing you've done some research, and can direct your questions to specific topics, we'll be more than happy to help you. You can start here, since power seems to be your interest: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm.

ORIGINAL: Sldwys11687

the dude that i'm prob going to be working with on the civic has one of his own, a D16 custom turbo kit using a WRX turbo, so he knows what hes doing...he doesn't have it boosted much and my estimate is prob 180-200hp with his car, it is a daily driver and who says 200hp in a civic is a hand-full, look at the other cars on the street with 200+, the Mustang GT's got 300, as long as ur not mashing the gas every time ur driving the car it should be fine, i'm really just trying to get the best engine to be boosted...GSR or B16, it's a given that i'm willing to put in money for it, i might be new here, but i'm not new to the game. i just want to know ur opinions on which engine is the best for boosting


With a 500whp goal, there is no "best" engine because the engine you need is going to need sleeves, pistons, rods, and headwork. Honestly, if you have to ask such a simple start off question, you're really not ready for this endeavor. I'm building a 400whp D16 and I have spent about 2 hours at the LEAST a day on the internet doing research... FOR THE PAST YEAR!

You're talking about making over 5 times the intended horsepower on an engine and expect it to not only run well but last for a while. You're going to need to take the correct amount of steps and YOU need to know how everything is going to go together, work, function, and even disfunction. Like I said before, you don't just make 500whp, and as Forty will be happy to tell you, you don't just make 200whp either without some serious work and time.

And yes, obviously you've never driven a 200whp Honda. They weigh half as much as a GT Mustang, it's 200whp in a tin can. At WOT tin cans do whatever the hell they want, does a stock 250whp Mustang blow it's tires off from a roll? Nope, 200whp Honda's do though, and when they do have traction, they lane travel like it's cool. If you've never driven a 200whp honda, you're not ready for a 500whp honda.

FYI, an LS/VTEC is a hybrid built engine. It's an LS (B18B1/B18A1) bottom end paired with a VTEC head (B18C1/B18C5/B16A2/B16B1). The obvious problem is that the LS bottom end is not designed for high revs while the VTEC head is, but you're going to have to build and balance the bottom end anyway for your power goals. You will need a sleeved block with pistons and rods, a fully built head with retainers, springs, and your best bet would be ITR cams. The engine + aftermarket build parts is already going to be pushing the $5000 envelope. Then you need the turbo kit from fullrace, which is something around $3500. Next of which comes the supporting mods, clutch, axles, appropriate LSD, traction bars, boost controller, Hondata S300/Neptune/AEM EMS, Tuning cost, injectors, fuel pump and appropriate other fuel mods, a full exhaust, and some beefy tires.

Like Kedawei said, there is no fast track for this sport, and you need deep pockets to make big numbers.

very deep pockets. the benson sleeves im saving for are 1000 alone

Prime example of what everybody is telling you, is that I waited 4 YEARS to save, research, and install my turbo kit. Everyone has been where you are, and first off, if your going to get a motor, that is realiable, every motor from honda is realible when built and tuned correctly within a reasonable amount. Just because you see tons of turbo civics and integras out there doesn't mean they aren't running into problems here and there, and that goes for every performance car built not bought!

ORIGINAL: riceburner700

very deep pockets. the benson sleeves im saving for are 1000 alone


indeed... and if you have them port/polish/do the headwork, you're looking at another $1600

(will say though laskey/benson are very good about keeping you informed of whats going on, i've got a y8 block with them now being sleeved)

ORIGINAL: sway2003

and first off, if your going to get a motor, that is realiable, every motor from honda is realible

That's just not true. H23s, F22s, and F23s are all motors you'll want to avoid unless you change out the crankshaft to a shorter stroke. I also would not boost a B20, or run forged pistons in a H22 because of their sleeves. I am also very weary of the K-series entirely because of their transmissions. Some say K-series transmissions are fine (the one's trying to sell the K-series mostly), but I personally think they have a design flaw somewhere in there that just will not allow them to hold up (a trend reflected in 2001+ Civic D17 automatics). I also would not touch a D17, again because oftheir stroke.

You know what I meant, lets not nit pick. If you want to make things simple, then get a b series, whatever price range you want to stick to, whether that is ls/vtec (very affordable and eaily available) or a gsr (more pricey). In my own opinion, an ls/vtec would be best mainly because price vs. performance of a gsr compared to a ls/vtec.

How is that nit picking?

This is the Full-Race description of their 520whp kit...Stage 2 AC Turbo Kit is designed for the racers who may currently have stock engines and are going to be racing on a stock motor, but have plans of building the motor in the future, and MUST keep AC. This kit has great top end, as it can make up to 540whp and still retains excellent spool characteristics. On a 100% stock GSR engine in a full interior/stereo/sunroof 1996 Civic EX Coupe, 11.40's are consistently reached with this turbo kit. Available for B series engines ONLY.
If your running 11.4's on a stock engine then wht do u think the boost is on it?

I have been doing research for the past 3 years, hense why i'm looking to see what B series engine people feel are the best...SovXietday, i give credit to you for building a 400hp D engine but that's it...it's a D engine, SOHC 100hp-127hp stock...the compression ratio isn't great and the stroke isn't either...the pistions and rods are not as strong as those in the B and the potential isn't as great...i'm sorry if i seem so sarcastic about this but a B offers greater gains with less work...i have a D16Y7 in my civic and i wish i had more...power sux and so does the redline...for a while i was into the SR20DET, with minor bolt ons and tuning you can easily reach 300-500hp on those engines, i understand that the honda B series are not built to be boosted but they should easily be able to withstand some boost, 8-10psi possibly 15, without the need to completely rip apart the block and build it, your all talking about a bolt on turbo kit with 500hp potential like it's impossible...go and check out the full race site and see for yourselves www.full-race.com

ORIGINAL: Sldwys11687

I have been doing research for the past 3 years, hense why i'm looking to see what B series engine people feel are the best...SovXietday, i give credit to you for building a 400hp D engine but that's it...it's a D engine, SOHC 100hp-127hp stock...the compression ratio isn't great and the stroke isn't either...the pistions and rods are not as strong as those in the B and the potential isn't as great...i'm sorry if i seem so sarcastic about this but a B offers greater gains with less work...i have a D16Y7 in my civic and i wish i had more...power sux and so does the redline...for a while i was into the SR20DET, with minor bolt ons and tuning you can easily reach 300-500hp on those engines, i understand that the honda B series are not built to be boosted but they should easily be able to withstand some boost, 8-10psi possibly 15, without the need to completely rip apart the block and build it, your all talking about a bolt on turbo kit with 500hp potential like it's impossible...go and check out the full race site and see for yourselves www.full-race.com (http://www.full-race.com)


There's one really small thing that you're forgetting all about.

Supporting mods.

No, you can't just bolt on a kit and make 500whp. I don't care if it's an ebay kit or a full race kit, you need the supporting mods to withstand the power correctly. Just like I can't bolt on a kit and make 400whp out of a Dseries, you can't bolt on a kit and make 500whp of the Bseries.

You will need, at the least. Pistons and Rods (which, yes, do require tearing the block apart), new oil pump/water pump, rod and main bearings, correctly sized injectors, fuel pump, ECU, tuning system, full street and dyno tune, clutch, etc. Most people overlook this kind of stuff, but you need it all.

300-350whp is about the stock threshhold on these engines.

3 years? That's sad.D16Z6 compression~9.14:1. Nearly ideal. Most D-series's are around there, not that stock compression means a damn when you're changing out the pistons. And less work? You'll have to do the exact same thing to your B-series to support that much much power. They are 'built fine for boost', but as Soviet was saying, they require support like any other motor. In addition to Soviet's list, you'd need a limited slip to get traction, and spare parts for when things break (they will at that much power, quicker than you have any idea). Andyou had to bring the ever-nooblet "psi" into your post. http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_403100/tm.htm

Picking noobs posts apart ftw. Scuttle back to your catalog reading and ricer friends that know everything. (Btw, you'll get a lot more respect if you ask questions rather than making assertions you don't have a clue about.)

Wow...you read me like a book...sorry for be so ricer...god i guess when ur a 5th gear member you know everything...sorry to ask questions...god

Finally you get it.[8D]Just remember there's no such thing as bolting on 500whp.

ORIGINAL: Sldwys11687

Wow...you read me like a book...sorry for be so ricer...god i guess when ur a 5th gear member you know everything...sorry to ask questions...god


im noob friendly, but since you wanted to be a ricer you should know that its"God"
also....if you want 500 hp...why do you want A/C? is it because its going to be your daily driver? haha...let me know how you like the stage 3 clutch on that! also, the discription states "for people that are going to be building their engine".....yep, just the same as building a D.

But hey, if you dont want to take these guys advice, (most acctually have boosted civics) and make statements like you know every thing (which its understandable to defend things you have your heart set on) then buy that kit....bolt it on and break stuff... (but dont plan on 500whp with out a tune and internals)

a 500whp DD civic is going to be friggin scary to drive...and uncomfortable.

prolly rather toasty too....which leads me to another supporting mod...bigger radiator, BIG ol' intercooler, and some really good fans.

Alright, i get it alread...but im just figuring that its easier to build a B because there are more parts readily available for the B series...but just for kicks and giggles, any brands or sites u guys can give me to look up D series parts? Cuz if i can cheaply build up my D then i'll go for it...and how but a mustang gt killer for a goal? Better?

Forum classifieds offer the best prices I've seen, that and local scrap yards. Ebay has some decent stuff from time to time, but you tend to have to wait to get the price you want. Mind you, I'm cheap as hell. :DYou mightfind a full D16Z6 in the forum classifieds/ebay for 500 or so. You could also say to hell with it and purchase a JDM D15B from an importer website for 700-1000 bucks.Depends on how involved you want to be. If you're like me (really cheap!), you'll want to purchase parts individually and piece the motor together yourself from scratch.

D-series need to be turbocharged to compete. That can be done very cheaply or very expensively. It just depends on how high you want to take it. I don't know what it would take to beat a Mustang GT, but I wouldn't push a D-series much past 400whp on a daily driver, andI would not take it into boost very often at that level. That is pushing it. I can't even imagine driving that powerful of a Civic (yet). Piecing together your own turbo kit is much easier than a motor, and can save you a lot more money, AND you ensure you get good parts where as a lot of parts in kitsrange from questionable to plain junk. There should be some sort of "tubro grocery list" in the DIY section.

I would list some parts too look out for, but for your own sake I think it's much better you find them yourself. Strapping parts out of a catalog to a motor and expecting them to function how you want them to just doesn't happen. Many-a lazy noobs blow motors that way.

lol, some sort of grocery list.. You just pm'ed me about it the other day:D

http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_400322/tm.htm

ORIGINAL: Sldwys11687

Alright, i get it alread...but im just figuring that its easier to build a B because there are more parts readily available for the B series...but just for kicks and giggles, any brands or sites u guys can give me to look up D series parts? Cuz if i can cheaply build up my D then i'll go for it...and how but a mustang gt killer for a goal? Better?


well...find me ANY good clean low miles B series block for $70...and for links... laskyracing.com

that was really dumb...d series parts are SOOO much cheaper to find than b series parts.maybey super awsome aftermarket racing parts are a tad harder to find (but hey, the d market is really growing) but stock parts are a peice of cake to find...and like i said...services for D's (p/p, piston kits/ valve train kits) are really increasing.

Cool, another quick question. Would any D16Y8 parts fit on a D16Y7 engine? Like aftermarket camshafts and pistons and the like?

camshafts from a Y8 will not interchange with Y7, the blocks are identical, so pistons are the same and rods are the same and all else is the same...

So then i guess it would be easier to modify if i got an EX Y8 head and converted to VTEC?

Yeasier - yes. I personally don't like the idea of mini-me if you're goign to boost, but that's just me and my personal preferences. I like to keep it simple:-D

ORIGINAL: Sldwys11687

So then i guess it would be easier to modify if i got an EX Y8 head and converted to VTEC?


its called a mini-me swa and you can find loads of info about it. Google or HCF search.

I'm with Roto though, yea VTEC is nice, but if you're gonna boost the mini-me is another $500 you could be spending on your turbo kit.

ORIGINAL: Forty04


Dude, a 300hp RWD car is a completely different monster from any high powered fwd. If you were reallya "veteran in this game" you'd know about a little thing called torque steer. Not to mention, good luck hooking up off the line on street tires...

neither the GSR nor the b16 are considered "top of the line" for boost apps. As I mentioned on the first page, build an LS/VTEC




I fully agree. I had to drop the compression to run boost properly in my B16. I am pushing 15psi in that thing and let me tell ya, the first time I drove that car and slammed the gas not knowing what torque steer was, I almost drove straight into a wall. My car is at the point to where you mash that gas that it ends up fighting you to swerve. I will state that any 300+whp civic without crazy extensive suspension work is just plain pointless and stupid unless you like to go to tire burning competitions.

Oh and for the record, to achieve that much power, you WILL HAVE to tear apart your block. I wanted a dependable resonably highpower civic. I have a motor that can withstand 350whp daily. But its my DD so its floating around 250 right now.

So in order to do that, I had to rebuild that block. $7000 later, I have my dependable DD

Not to mention the LSD tranny, and the axles, and the $3k Greddy kit and the $1,500 Apexi Power FC stand alone setup, and the boost controller, and the turbo timer, and the a/c relocation kit.


Need I go further? Because I could if you need me to.

ORIGINAL: Roto

camshafts from a Y8 will not interchange with Y7, the blocks are identical, so pistons are the same and rods are the same and all else is the same...


Pistons are different.

Regardless I would skip the Y series and play it safe with a Z6, A6, or D15 variant. Too many spun rod bearings. Just not worth the risk for me.

ORIGINAL: Forty04

lol, some sort of grocery list.. You just pm'ed me about it the other day:D

http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_400322/tm.htm


Lol. I'm too busy to remember crap like that.

...forget it

ORIGINAL: Kedawei

ORIGINAL: Roto

camshafts from a Y8 will not interchange with Y7, the blocks are identical, so pistons are the same and rods are the same and all else is the same...


Pistons are different.

Regardless I would skip the Y series and play it safe with a Z6, A6, or D15 variant. Too many spun rod bearings. Just not worth the risk for me.


Really? Learn something new every time...I had them side by side I guess I should have measured them.

ORIGINAL: Sldwys11687

Cool, another quick question. Would any D16Y8 parts fit on a D16Y7 engine? Like aftermarket camshafts and pistons and the like?


Yes, all of them. The Y series blocks are all exactly the same, the Y8 head is a royal pain in the ass though. If you go mini me, use a D16Z6 head!

But if you want my honest opinion, stick with the Bseries engines. You are right, they are better for the application and they will hold more power. My personal preference, go with an LS engine (you can pick them up for like $500 if you look around). With good fuel and tuning they will make 300whp on a stock block with pump gas and be perfectly reliable. Mustang GT killer like whoa, and for ~3-4K including supporting mods.;)

Oh, and torque steer almost put me in the wall my first time at the track with the setup. I shifted into 2nd, blew the tires off, and slid within 6" of the outside wall, fun eh?

It's OK to ask questions, we don't mind answering. We will not however spoon feed you and we do know when you're talking out of your ass. ;)

Ok, yeah, i was figuring that really helps, cuz if i can save money but get good hp with boost i'm all for it...i've also heard that boosting with VTEC is almost like having a double boost...ya know like you get the punch from boost then at VTEC it's like another punch. IDK if you guys trust wikipedia but i read a section on D series engines that said that their crankshafts are 300 whp capable stock.

That's not the engine, just the crankshaft...and i've heard that before, but have no first hand experience with it so i'll let someone that has actually DONE that confirm it.

ORIGINAL: Roto

ORIGINAL: Kedawei

ORIGINAL: Roto

camshafts from a Y8 will not interchange with Y7, the blocks are identical, so pistons are the same and rods are the same and all else is the same...


Pistons are different.

Regardless I would skip the Y series and play it safe with a Z6, A6, or D15 variant. Too many spun rod bearings. Just not worth the risk for me.


Really? Learn something new every time...I had them side by side I guess I should have measured them.


Compression height and displacement are different.

Dseries crank has been proven for 568whp now, soon to be more.

^ Aye. All Honda cranks are forged from the factory and will handle ridiculous amounts of power.

That's def a good thing to know...so basically if i'm looking to boost i'll just need to do rods pistons and head but i can leave the crankshaft...

I'm impressed. Yes.

Above a certain point will require sleeves. Usually around 500+. We'll assume you won't reach that though. ;)

if you want the motor to be reliable sleeve it or else after 350+ your sleeves are going downhill. but really i guess its all in the tune. cheap ass tune= short motor life

^ Link? Seems like plenty of motor run 400-500 on stock sleeves.

ask any tuner, you show me a stock sleeved 400hp motor that has went 50,000+ thousand miles

what are you saying that a cheaply tuned motor will last forver

Did I say anything about a cheap tune? What is a "cheap tune" anyway?An AFC?

Anyway, I seem rememberreading of people runing 400+ for a year+ without trouble.As for asking a tuner: http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1376&highlight=sleeve

ORIGINAL: Kedawei

ORIGINAL: Roto

ORIGINAL: Kedawei

ORIGINAL: Roto

camshafts from a Y8 will not interchange with Y7, the blocks are identical, so pistons are the same and rods are the same and all else is the same...


Pistons are different.

Regardless I would skip the Y series and play it safe with a Z6, A6, or D15 variant. Too many spun rod bearings. Just not worth the risk for me.


Really? Learn something new every time...I had them side by side I guess I should have measured them.


Compression height and displacement are different.


Are you positive on displacement being different.I will have to look into that since I'm still planning to build a budget y7 in the near future.

Mysource indicates -7.4cc for the Y7, and -6.2cc for the Y8, with a .5mm difference in compression height. I would trust it, as the creator gets hounded if his specs are off. http://zealautowerks.com/dseries.html

Yeah but, like it matters lol.

when u use that zeal autowerks site, it's bad if you got negative number right?

ORIGINAL: SovXietday

Yeah but, like it matters lol.


I like numbers. :)

ORIGINAL: Sldwys11687

when u use that zeal autowerks site, it's bad if you got negative number right?


If you get a negative as your compression result, then yeah you've put the pistons through the cylinder head.

Yeah, i got a -.007 in the piston to deck height

Ah that is different. All that means are the pistons are sitting -.007 out of the block. I've heard of people going .02 out the block, so .007 shouldn't be a problem. You would definitely want to clay it though, to make sure the valves won't hit the tops of the pistons. I can't remember what piston-to-valve clearance needs to be. I wanna say .040"?

Ok, cuz i was doing the calculatoins and i did a complete B16A engine, only thing i changed was the pistons to B16B. I got a CR of 11.91:1 a Rod/Stroke ratio of 1.73 but then i got the piston-to-deck height of -.007.

Quick question on rod to stroke length. Would it be better to go with a stroke length of 1.73:1 like in the b16 or 1.58 like the b18, cuz i read that the higher the stroke is to 2 the better for high reving engines, like formula cars meaning that it stays in the power band longer while the b18's lower stroke helps on torque.