RE: races of the night!!!
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RE: races of the night!!! - 8/19/2007 12:33:21 AM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: polo708
lol, an official mustnag race on HCF... I like it
Just seems the mustang cobras were always slower than the Z28's, then they came out with the terminators and the story changed. Watched a guy run a new GT500 at the track Friday night. Must say I was disappointed. He was launching pretty soft but was still only running in the high 13's. tons of power but too much weight. Cantwait to see the new BOSS mustangs.
The problem with that is Ford waited untill GM stopped bringing the F-Body out to man up. So there is no telling what would have happened. And the new GT500 is a pig and sucks balls with the IRS. I was too not happy when I seen times from them, I honestly thought maybe it would make Chevy make the Z06 better but hell a base model 08 vette(430hp 0-60mph in 4 flat and 1/4 mile in 12.0 at 116mph) will hand it to a GT500 on every aspect of a track plus get tons better milage. It will be cool to see what happens in 09 but I fear that with the new fed regulations going into effect(2013) that a car must get 35mpg that the new hp wars will be short lived.
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RE: races of the night!!! - 8/19/2007 1:24:04 PM
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07Si
Posts: 105
Joined: 4/18/2007
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The cobras were beat by the ss camaros but the z28s?, please those things were dogs. Marty, as for the gt500 it has a solid axle in the rear. Ford said that the IRS while lighter too many people were swapping out the IRS in the 03-04 cobras so they decided to go solid axle. As far as them being pigs, the only thing wrong is they weigh to much. Get some wieght out of those things and they are a force to be reckoned with. Also marty, the f body Chevys still had the 350s in them which at the time they were discontinued was a 50 year old design, plenty of time to get it right, where as Ford was working with the new modular engines which were only a few years old.
< Message edited by 07Si -- 8/19/2007 1:27:16 PM >
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07 Civic Si-stock for now
96 Cobra-Track car, to much stuff to list
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RE: races of the night!!! - 8/19/2007 3:35:55 PM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
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Do not try to debate the abilities of the gen 3 and gen 4 small blocks with me because allthough a old base design was used they are still better than a crappy ass ford mod motor. The new Z06's spank the GT500's and to be honest outrun the Ford GT's with that design so something must be right. Untill Ford brings a n/a 5.4 to 6.0 to the table that will take to mods like the LSX's, are as lightweight as the LSX's, and get as good milage as the LSX's then nobody let alone a ford fan has any room to talk about improvement.
Also the Z28's were the exact same car as the SS's minus the ram air which was only good for around 10hp at best. And you can make all the excuses in the word for the GT500 and it does not matter as the 01 and 02 SS's and WS6's were hitting high 12's 99% stock. I myself have a buddy that used to have a 02 SS with a $15 air box lid and a set of $250 Nitto 555's hitting 12.6's at 113mph. People talk about chevy lacking design features and being behind the times but it is ford that is forced to put superchargers on everything to make them perform. BTW GM does in fact have a couple of examples of DOHC V8's and for the most part they kill ford's efforts.
The early 90's ZR-1 Vette had a DOHC 32 valve LT5 that put out 400hp......without a supercharger
The Northstar Cadillac DOHC 32 valve 4.6 V8 has for years put out the 300hp the mustangs just got to in 05.....10 years after caddy did it people praise the ford engine 
The new XLR-V, STS-V both have 4.4 supercharged DOHC V8's that put out in the tune of 470hp and 450tq. A full liter smaller than the GT500's engine and still nearly the same power.
Ford's engine get shoved in peoples faces because it is all they have, GM's on the other hand is in the middle of a number of good engine platforms so they dont get as much attention.
Untill ford can bring a n/a engine that does this http://youtube.com/watch?v=I6EiNFiLhV0 nobody has room to talk.
< Message edited by Marty -- 8/20/2007 12:07:52 AM >
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If you are over 18 years old in the United States and do not vote do not bitch about local, state, and national laws. This includes fix it tickets, big speeding fines, and high taxes(gas prices included)
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RE: races of the night!!! - 8/20/2007 8:26:08 AM
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Patrick
Posts: 4307
Joined: 10/9/2004
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someone should probably point out that while the LS1cars are capable of those times with that small amount of work, driver skill makes a big difference as well. WELL DRIVEN LS1 cars run those number with those mods...but some of them with the same mods are in the 13s. then again, ive seen a pullied terminator with exhaust run 11.50...and 13.00s..people cant buy the driver mod.
also, i have to say that insisting that any company "having to have an engine make 500hp NA" is not a valid debate. 500hp is 500hp, no matter how you get there. while ford does rely heavily on forced induction, youre comparing a 70,000 dollar Z06 to what, the Ford GT? that car was a joke from the beginning...nothing but a "look at me" toy for old men who wish they could have had a GT40 back in the day...the z06 is a beast, bottom line, but for the price, it should be.
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RE: races of the night!!! - 8/20/2007 10:18:13 AM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
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Well the bottom line is the GT was supposed to be ford's valid effort at super cars and allthough it was listed in the area of $120k to $140k they in actuality went in the $270k to $300k range. And the only point I was making is that nobody can talk about GM's lack of developement and how the pushrod design is dated when ford with a supposed superior design(over head cam, more valves per cyl) cant make the same power n/a without a large number of aftermarket parts added. And the bottom line is the GT500 even if it is a deal at around $40k still do not do justice to the power it is supposed to put down. And if a terminator did not put those times down with added boost there would be something wrong. The bottom line is that money put aside Ford, segment for segment is not bringing anything that impresses me. Dodge on the otherhand has done great things for and with their company and engine developement.
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If you are over 18 years old in the United States and do not vote do not bitch about local, state, and national laws. This includes fix it tickets, big speeding fines, and high taxes(gas prices included)
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RE: races of the night!!! - 8/20/2007 1:03:31 PM
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07Si
Posts: 105
Joined: 4/18/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marty
The early 90's ZR-1 Vette had a DOHC 32 valve LT5 that put out 400hp......without a supercharger
The Northstar Cadillac DOHC 32 valve 4.6 V8 has for years put out the 300hp the mustangs just got to in 05.....10 years after caddy did it people praise the ford engine
Hate to burst your bubble but as I said earlier my 96 cobra came stock with 305 hp, and even before the cobras went forced induction they were at 320 hp, plus when did vettes qualify as f body cars. Not to mention you bring up the fact that the XLR-V's engine is a full liter smaller than the GT500, what about the fact that the mustangs only have 4.6s and the chevys had 5.7s, the fords were more than a full liter smaller than the chevy engines. So comparing a corvette to a mustang is like comparing apples and oranges. This is no way an attack on you or chevy, (I had an I-roc Z before the mustang), just a debate.
< Message edited by 07Si -- 8/20/2007 1:09:04 PM >
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07 Civic Si-stock for now
96 Cobra-Track car, to much stuff to list
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RE: races of the night!!! - 8/20/2007 5:00:05 PM
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99civicricer
Posts: 463
Joined: 8/7/2006
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in the end the mustang is still a ford which means it is still a P.O.S. chevy will always be superior no matter what way you look at it.
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RE: races of the night!!! - 8/20/2007 9:04:35 PM
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Marty
Posts: 8273
Joined: 1/27/2005
From: TN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 07Si
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marty
The early 90's ZR-1 Vette had a DOHC 32 valve LT5 that put out 400hp......without a supercharger
The Northstar Cadillac DOHC 32 valve 4.6 V8 has for years put out the 300hp the mustangs just got to in 05.....10 years after caddy did it people praise the ford engine
Hate to burst your bubble but as I said earlier my 96 cobra came stock with 305 hp, and even before the cobras went forced induction they were at 320 hp, plus when did vettes qualify as f body cars. Not to mention you bring up the fact that the XLR-V's engine is a full liter smaller than the GT500, what about the fact that the mustangs only have 4.6s and the chevys had 5.7s, the fords were more than a full liter smaller than the chevy engines. So comparing a corvette to a mustang is like comparing apples and oranges. This is no way an attack on you or chevy, (I had an I-roc Z before the mustang), just a debate.
I first off was comparing engines when I was throwing out the old ZR-1 engine and also when I said the caddy engine is a full liter smaller than the GT500's engine I was comparing supercharged engines to supercharged engines. The cobra and gt500 have a posative displacement 2 liter eaton supercharger so go ahead and add that up. 4.6 + 2.0 = 6.6(7.4 for the GT500). Larger than a 5.7(underrated 345hp ls1), larger than a 6.0(underrated 400hp LS2), larger than a 6.2(430hp ls3). But either way it does not matter because I was comparing forced induction engines of the same type with the caddy ford comparo. 320hp.......ha, that is from a marque top of the line Mustang that is noted and touted even by mustang fans as being slow, over weight, and not deserving of the cobra nameplate. Ford's engines V8 wise, hp to hp wise, n/a to n/a wise is not up to what GM has to offer.....sorry. The real way to look at it is this, the 02 GT stock ran 14.7's at 98mph, the 02 SS ran on average 13.2 at over 105mph.
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If you are over 18 years old in the United States and do not vote do not bitch about local, state, and national laws. This includes fix it tickets, big speeding fines, and high taxes(gas prices included)
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RE: races of the night!!! - 8/21/2007 10:32:25 AM
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07Si
Posts: 105
Joined: 4/18/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marty
I first off was comparing engines when I was throwing out the old ZR-1 engine and also when I said the caddy engine is a full liter smaller than the GT500's engine I was comparing supercharged engines to supercharged engines.
The real way to look at it is this, the 02 GT stock ran 14.7's at 98mph, the 02 SS ran on average 13.2 at over 105mph.
I was also comparing n/a motor to motor. The 96 cobra has a n/a 4.6 liter where as the SS has a n/a 5.7 liter which is more than a full liter larger. And as for the 02 GT running a 14.7 at the track my father has a time slip for his stock 02 gt daily driver that begs to differ. Yes I know that I talk alot about time slips but my grandfather always told me, if your gonna tell people its fast you better have a time slip to prove it.
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07 Civic Si-stock for now
96 Cobra-Track car, to much stuff to list
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