Transmission FAQ - READ BEFORE YOU POST!
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Transmission FAQ - READ BEFORE YOU POST! - 12/17/2007 9:31:30 PM
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SovXietday
Posts: 1868
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Harleysville, PA
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Certainly time that I write one of these. Things that I'm going to cover in this thread are frequently asked questions and frequently seen problems in our beloved Honda transmissions, but before I do.
If you are considering boosting or highly modifying an engine that is connected to an automatic honda transmission I urge you not to bother. The transmission WILL go, it is not an if or may, it is a will. These transmission barely hold their own power, let alone more! I will not be covering anything more on these. They are a pain in the ass to work on, I hate them, and I will not buy them. Also, because I have no experience with it, I will not be covering auto to manual swaps. We already have good information for that anyway. Now, onto the good stuff.
1. How a transmission works
2. Best stock transmission.
3. Differentials
4. Common problems
5. Clutch/Flywheel
1. How a Transmission Works
A transmission although confusing at first look is very simple. Essentially there are two shafts that hold the gears. The mainshaft and the countershaft. The mainshaft is just that, the main shaft (furthest shaft in picture). It is the shaft that is driven directly by the engine. The countershaft is the 2nd part to each gear and it also makes sure that the differential spins in the correct direction (closer shaft in picture).
The driveline is pretty simple. When the engine is fired the crankshaft rotates around in a circle. In neutral gear no gears are engaged so the car will not move. When you step on the clutch the throwout bearing pushes on a diaphram on the pressure plate and pulls the clutch off of the flywheel. This allows you to shift. When you shift, you are pushing what's called a "shift fork" in the trans case. These are the large metal shafts next to the gear stacks. Say you put the car in first gear, the shift fork will push a "synchro sleeve" that has a "synchro" inside of it.
This is a synchro, you can see the teeth. The gears on the gearstacks have matching slots for these teeth, and when the sleeve is pushed it uses the synchro to initially slow down or speed up the gear and match before the sleeve moves into the teeth. Once the gear is engaged you let the clutch "out" which allows the clutch disk to grip the flywheel again, essentially connecting the crankshaft of the engine to the mainshaft in the transmission. The mainshaft turns in the forward direction, which pushes the countershaft 1st gear to rotate the opposite way. The final drive at the end of the countershaft spins the ring gear and thusly the differential in the same direction as the mainshaft. Your axles are in your differential, so they will rotate in the same direction and thus your tires. Basically, it's the long way of saying that you're going forward! Now, a little more info about the transmission itself.
Each "gear" is actually two gears, and a "gear ratio" is found by dividing the number of teeth on the countershaft gear by the number of teeth on the mainshaft gear. So say you have 20 teeth on the countershaft gear and 10 teeth on the mainshaft gear. Your gear ratio for this would be 2.000. The larger the ratio, the shorter the gear. Most transmissions have 5 gears, a final drive gear, and a reverse gear. The 5 gears are the gears your grandmother is familiar with. Each gear is longer than the other in consecutive order (1 short, 5 long). The Final drive is a small gear on the end of the countershaft that turns the very large ring gear that is bolted to the differential. This is easily seen in the picture, the ring gear is the large diameter gear positioned under and infront of the countershaft. The reverse gear (cannot be seen in the picture) is almost always a straight cut gear that when shifted is dropped between the mainshaft and countershaft causing an extra rotation.
That is essentially how a transmission works. It's a simple concept once you get familiar with it and they're fairly simple to work with.
2. Best Stock Transmissions for Your Car
Bseries:
JDM ITR - Overall shortest gearing and comes with a factory LSD (Limited Slip Differential).
USDM ITR - Similar to the JDM ITR only with small changes in gearing. Has factory LSD
B16A2 (YS1) - Same thing as the USDM ITR with a slightly longer final drive and no LSD.
USDM GSR - IMO the best daily driver transmission out there. Short enough to be fun, but long enough to not be at 4800RPMs at 80mph. This is a GREAT low RPM engine transmission, the YS1 transmissions are better for the rev happy engines.
Dseries:
JDM DOHC ZC - Only will fit in EF chassis and extremely hard to find. Also has LSD. This is basically the Dseries equivalent to the USDM GSR. Although the case cannot fit into hydro chassis, the 3, 4, and 5 gears can be put onto the hydro shafts *with modification to the 4th gear*. If you don't want to modify, you can use a 1.033 3rd gear from a CRX HF or 1.066 3rd from a VX.
D16ZC(SOHC)/D16Z6/D16Y8 - These are the shortest stock hydro transmissions. Pretty much an LS Bseries transmission. The Y8 is slightly better due to having steel shift forks, otherwise they're arguably the same transmission. Will bolt up to any engine but case will not work in an EF chassis.
D16A6 - Cable trans guys, the transmission from the 88-91 Si will be your easiest swap in.
Hseries/Fseries
VTEC Hseries transmissions - Best geared but really nothing to scream about either. Your best alternative is a H2B/F2B swap in which you get rid of the crappy Hseries transmission and use a Bseries transmission.
3. Differentials
Differentials are probably one of the best mods you can do to any car. However, they are not cheap and they are not easy to install. Essentially what an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) does is help put down equal power to both wheels. Open differentials are a path of least resistance differential, so if one tire loses traction most of the power your engine makes is going to go to that spinning tire. The LSD on the other hand will keep power to the non spinning wheel to try and get traction back.
There are quite a few different uses for differentials, but the most common two differentials are the Quaife LSD and the OBX LSD. These are helical LSDs that use spider gears, other less popular LSDs like the Kaaz LSD are clutch type which is pretty self explanatory. For FWD vehicles IMO helical is the best and they last longer. The Quaife is lifetime warranty and very expensive ($1000+). The OBX is no warranty and much less expensive (~$400-450). The Quaife drops right in, the OBX needs to be shimmed correctly and is overall a pain in the ass to install. However, I have beaten the crap out of my OBX and it has held wonderfully and many many people have had the same results.
4. Common Problems
Almost always I read this issue and it is true for just about ANY manual vehicle you will ever own. If you are hearing a dull grinding/sliding sound while in gear your mainshaft bearing is going (aka the ISB or Input Shaft Bearing). This bearing is located on the opposite end of the mainshaft and gets worn quickly because of the clutch pushing it in and out. This bearing also takes the brunt of the torque from your engine. When you replace this bearing it's best to just replace all of the bearings at once, and always use OEM Honda bearings. The install itself is not bad but if you've never pulled apart a transmission I'd suggest against doing it yourself unless you have someone who knows what they're doing to help.
Strange noise when you push the clutch in and let it out. Generally doesn't happen too much when the car is in gear. This is usually the throwout bearing. MUCH easier to replace than the mainshaft bearing. Fairly cheap too, you can do this with a friend in about 5-6 hours, just make sure to grease the fork well before putting it back in.
Car won't go out of gear. Your clutch is most likely blown.
I'm hear a lot of rattling coming from the transmission. My clutch is chattering while going into gear. This is most likely the clutch springs going or already gone. Somewhere someone got the brilliant idea to put springs in the clutch disk to "reduce vibration" in the engine. The only thing I'm convinced that they do is make it a hassle for everyone, and you'll need a new clutch disk.
Car will not shift into either 1/2, 3/4, or 5. You probably snapped a shift fork, if it's a Dseries you might as well as just replace the transmission. Bseries depending on the cost have it fixed.
Car grinds going into gear. Remember when I told you about the synchro and how it is used to match speeds with each gear before the sleeve engages? These are high wear items and need to be replaced from time to time. This is most common in shifting into 2nd gear on high mileage transmissions, and it is not a cheap or easy fix. But, if you ever have to do it, the 2nd gear synchro is located between the countershaft 1 and 2 gear and you'll be needing a press.
X gear just revs. I can shift into it but the car just revs up like it's in N. You probably stripped the teeth on the gear this will need to be replaced ASAP.
5. Clutch/Flywheel
Before you choose a clutch, realize one thing. Clutches are rated in TORQUE, not horsepower. You drive a Honda, you will most likely not be making more than 150wtq N/A, you DO NOT need a stage 4 pucked clutch. A fresh organic clutch with slightly upgraded pressure plate will hold just as well as the 6 puck flywheel eater stage 4.
Boosted guys, set your goals and choose your clutch accordingly. Just remember that the more power you make the shorter amount of time that the clutch will last, no matter what stage. Also, as you move up the "stages" the compounds used on the clutch surface become much more abrasive and your flywheel will start to take a beating. Once you surpass ~500whp, I'd start looking into a twin disk setup. However, if you're looking that high I'd hope that you're not reading this and already know that.
I personally will go no lighter than an 11lb flywheel unless it's a dedicated N/A track car. Boosted guys a slightly heavier flywheel will keep your shifts nice and high, N/A guys the lighter flywheel will free up some revability. Again, on a street car there really isn't any need for anything lighter than 10-11lbs, unless you like having to rev your car super high just to go anywhere.
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I'll add stuff as I remember it.
< Message edited by SovXietday -- 12/18/2007 10:06:24 AM >
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Champ White 1996 Civic Hatchback - 57trim SOHC
Black 1998 Z28 Camaro - LS1 M6
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RE: Transmission FAQ - READ BEFORE YOU POST! - 12/18/2007 10:16:20 AM
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Roto
Posts: 5445
Joined: 11/15/2004
From: Centralia, PA
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Why don't you add something about diff shimming in there. It'll be helpful for people to know what and why and I just don't feel like writing that...
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RE: Transmission FAQ - READ BEFORE YOU POST! - 12/19/2007 9:19:49 PM
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SovXietday
Posts: 1868
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Harleysville, PA
Status: offline
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Shimming an OBX LSD
One of my favorite things to do in life... not.
Basically, going back to what I said about the OBX being a PITA to install. It needs to be shimmed correctly because it's not the right size and can't use the stock shim that's there. Not shimmed the LSD is going to bounce around in the case, shimmed too much it will seize the LSD in the case and well... break your whole drivetrain! Basically you will need to drop the LSD into the case, bolt the case back together and using feeler gauges determine how much of a shim you need. The proper clearance is .001 - .0015. You can either have the stock shim machined to fit correctly or you can devise your own shims, whichever you find "easiest."
That's one of several annoying and PITA parts of installing the OBX LSD. If I ever do another one for someone I'll do a full write up.
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Champ White 1996 Civic Hatchback - 57trim SOHC
Black 1998 Z28 Camaro - LS1 M6
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RE: Transmission FAQ - READ BEFORE YOU POST! - 12/20/2007 12:57:56 PM
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addiction2bass
Posts: 6866
Joined: 6/21/2006
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sweet write up....
but how about the stamped codes on the trannys?
its like A or B*** some crap like that stamped into the trannys case......
im looking into posibly swaping trannys cause i have NO IDEA what gears my DX tranny has tho previous owner swears he rebuilt it with EX gears but from all the shady crap ive found on this car.... it wouldnt suprise me if its just a DX tranny :(
thinking about just upping to a Y8 tranny just cause probably easier to find and newer.
and you got any info on stiffening up a shifter? i know most move quite a bit when just siting or even ingear... but any advice for stiffening up the shifter for beter engagement?
< Message edited by addiction2bass -- 12/20/2007 1:01:33 PM >
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RE: Transmission FAQ - READ BEFORE YOU POST! - 12/20/2007 8:26:54 PM
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Roto
Posts: 5445
Joined: 11/15/2004
From: Centralia, PA
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poly bushings stiffen it up well...if you wish you can always fab aluminum bushings and that would be even stiffer.
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RE: Transmission FAQ - READ BEFORE YOU POST! - 12/21/2007 10:11:58 AM
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Live_4it
Posts: 1154
Joined: 1/14/2007
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I learned a lot from that good write up man. My car used to have a hard time now and then getting into 1st gear, once at a stoplight it didn't want to go in at all. Repeatedly I tried pushing my clutch in and out of neutral, and eventually pried it in there. But once I changed my trans fluid it has improved a lot, and now only when it's cold at start up and 15 min after it's a little stiff through the gears (which I believe is typical due to weather). So I don't think I snapped a shift fork, although I'm sure I'll need to upgrade some parts if not the whole tranny within the next couple years.
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RE: Transmission FAQ - READ BEFORE YOU POST! - 12/21/2007 10:17:37 AM
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danomatic93
Posts: 2322
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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any hydraulic D-series tranny (the zc is an exception, but you can make it work) from a 92-00 civic. Make sure it's a D-series tranny (SOHC!, not DOHC). If you have a z6, I would reccomend getting another Z6 tranny (92-95 EX/Si) or "upgrade" to a D16Y8 tranny (96-00 civic EX/Si).
Tranny's will have a code by the trans fluid fill plug that reads A000 or B000. A000 has small bearing case and B000 has large bearing case. So, B000 is better.
Here's where you can find the code:
A000's are from HX, DX, CX, VX models [gear ratios better for high end]
B000's are from EX, Si (SOHC only) models [gears ratio better for low end]
The Y8 tranny is "better" because it's composed of steel instead of aluminum like the Z6.
Also, the Y8 has one gear that has a slightly higher gear ratio than the Z6.
Z6 M/T gear ratios: Y8 M/T gear ratios:
1ST: 3.250 1ST: 3.250
2ND: 1.900 2ND: 1.909
3RD: 1.250 3RD: 1.250
4TH: 0.909 4TH: 0.909
5TH: 0.702 5TH: 0.702
Reverse: 3.153 Reverse: 3.153
Final Drive: 4.250 Final Drive: 4.250
I recommend getting a B000 and a Y8 if you can get one.
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