RE: Why the thought of alternate fuel is useless.

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RE: Why the thought of alternate fuel is useless.

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RE: Why the thought of alternate fuel is useless. - 4/26/2008 10:20:48 AM

danomatic93

Posts: 2432
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline

Just through my classes I've learned that Nuclear Energy production isn't nearly as dangerous as it's made out to be, especially when compared to others such as coal degasification. Since it's such a rare occurance, the media jumps all over it and sensationalizes it.

Today, the best band-aid (not solution) is to increase the production of electric/gas hybrids until other technologies can be improved upon. To further this, the cost of purchasing of these vehicles must go down too.

[RANT]
On a side note, referenced to the people throwing statistics out here, please keep them accurate and complete. The main reason I say this is stats that are true but leave out vital information are as good as false stats. You can say things like:

quote:

To make one calorie of ethonal fuel, it takes ten calories of oil.

Sure, I know that the ten calories of oil are ten calories of crude oil. But not everyone knows that. Furthermore, the unit calorie is only used to deceive. A calorie is a unit of energy which is NOT a unit a volume such as gallon or Liter. How often does the everyday person measure the calories in things (other than food)? I know that I don't go strutting around saying "My engine puts out 3,000,000 calories, VTEC VTEC!!" Why don't I? Because most people can put that into perspective. Like, whoa, that's 100,000 Twix candy bars!! Cool!!!
[/RANT]

For a real statistic though, say you have 42 gallons of CRUDE oil (which is unrefined oil). After refining, that 42 gallons only makes 19.5 gallons of useable gasoline. Of course this stat is dependant on several different factors, such as, refining efficiency, product mix desired by the refiner, and quality of the crude oil to name a few.

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(in reply to GReddy_Civic)

Post #: 31

RE: Why the thought of alternate fuel is useless. - 4/30/2008 11:58:13 AM

jamned

Posts: 264
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: koots

I don't know if anyone has heard of the oil embargo of 1973 (killed the musclecars) but it was estimated that the U.S would use up most of their oil by the 80's and then all of a sudden we had enough to waste. I'm not saying we are not in trouble, but i don't think it's as bad as they say it is. We can't get the oil we would like to from the middle east and the oil from the U.S is drying up, but there is still the oilsands in Alberta, Canada. Saskatchewan is supposed to surpass Alberta in a decade for oil sands production. Plus they have sea bed oil, like Hibernia oil fields off of the Newfoundland coast. It's not gonna dry up in our lifetime. I think they are just trying to scare us into investing in alternative fuels. Which isn't a bad thing, but it's not the solution.

Hydrogen is still in it's early stages and they have to figure out a way to make it safe in a collision (explosion!). I think that for the mean time, diesel is an effective solution. Everywhere but the US and Canada, car companies have been thriving off of diesel engine productions, even BMW's and Mercedes Benz's have multiple diesel engine options. Even our own beloved Honda has created numerous diesel engine options for their entire line-up. It doesn't cure our dependency for fossil fuel, but it reduces it dramatically. Who cares if it's a little louder, rougher and stinks. Try driving a diesel and see for yourself, you would be pleasantly suprised by the output and peppiness of the compression ignition engine. Even better is the fuel consumption, which is easy to achieve numbers in excess of 50mpg in a compact car with no special tricks or driving habit changes (plus the homebrew of bio diesel). North America needs to open up their eyes to the global stage and see what works. Keep the alternative fuels in development but start creating more deisel options for the modern consumer, cuz it ain't just for hippies anymore.

koots, the diesel combustion process produces much more NOx than gasoline combustion does. One solution commonly implemented in European diesel cars is to use a liquid catalyst to neutralize the NOx before it leaves the car. The liquid catalyst gets consumed and so it needs to be refilled on a regular basis. If you don't do that, the car will feel the same and won't get damaged, but you'll be polluting significantly more. In my opinion, there's a very valid concern that many Americans won't perform this maintenance. (ODBII is meant to throw a code when you have an engine problem OR there's an emissions problem. How many people do you know who drive with their check engine light on?)

California doesn't allow for the sale of any diesel passenger car which requires a catalyst to be replenished regularly. Honda's new diesel engine is the only one I know of that will be sold new in California, as it uses some more advanced combustion techniques to reduce NOx without using a liquid catalyst. (Some people "grey market" other diesel passenger cars to Ca from other states, but they're relatively few in number).

Another concern I'd have about diesel becoming a mass fuel is the price right now. Diesel's already used for most or all freight trucks. If many people started using it for their commuter cars, they would represent a big jump in demand. Diesel prices would go up even further to match that. I could see that almost all consumer goods would also see a price jump, as the cost to move them increases. Diesel isn't a replacement for gas in my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: danomatic93
Sure, I know that the ten calories of oil are ten calories of crude oil. But not everyone knows that. Furthermore, the unit calorie is only used to deceive. A calorie is a unit of energy which is NOT a unit a volume such as gallon or Liter.

Interesting point, I always neglected the units. The "calorie" statement is some great spin on the part of the anti-ethanol (oil industry) camp.

< Message edited by jamned -- 4/30/2008 12:06:40 PM >

(in reply to koots)

Post #: 32