Hey, guys I'm new in the honda performance world. I am interested in buying a new set of headers for my 1998 honda civic LX (SOHC, NON-VTEC) what is the difference between buying a set of expensive headers from DC SPORTS, and one of the cheap ones that they announce at e-bay, is it just the name or it really makes a difference. They both have the same 4-2-1 design. Can somebody please advise me on this one.

First of all, [sm=welcomesign.gif] to HCF. [sm=groupwave.gif][sm=groupwave.gif][sm=groupwave.gif]

Secondly, you only need to buy one header for your Honda. From all the talk on this forum, I believe there is a difference in the quality, fit, and ease of installation between an eBay and brand name header. The most common suggested header is the DC Sports ceramic coated 4-2-1 header.

absolutely yes. there is a HUGE difference in header quality. dont waste your money on a cheap header. just stick with DC or Greddy. they are a sure bet.

Yes you do only need one header and yes there is a big difference in brand quality

i bought a Bosal ceramic coated header and it fit quite well. but i got a deal on it so thats why i bought it. but i think regularly they are a little cheaper then the others......

thank you guys for the information, I will be asking you a lot of questions as i am trying to customize my civic so far I got tinted windows, 17" rims with 215/45R17 tires, nology hot wires and performance internal coil, rotor and cap.

welcome aboard man!!!

the only difference in the headers is the welding of the piping and the crome painting will wear off and change colors faster because of the heat. thats all, it's still gonna be a 1.6 piping straight to the bottom and the curves are the same.

ORIGINAL: nightrider46

the only difference in the headers is the welding of the piping and the crome painting will wear off and change colors faster because of the heat. thats all, it's still gonna be a 1.6 piping straight to the bottom and the curves are the same.
yeah? do a little research.

i did my research, did u do urs ?? let me kno wut u got if i'm wrong ? whats the real diff ?

the diameter of the pipes has a direct effect on exhaust gas velocity, and if the pipes are improperly sized, even by only a little bit, it will either restrict the flow enough to hurt high end power, or it will cause stagnance in the exhaust flow, killing the cylinder scavenging effect. and that will really hurt your low end, and can even hurt top end. so you really should stick to companies that spend money on designing and flow testing their headers. there are a few things you can get away with using cheaper parts, but headers and exhausts are not them.

exhaust flow is exhaust flow, pressure is pressure you'll still have the same coming out of the pistons when it makes its explosion it's just matters how thick is the headers cuz the more room it has to push out, the faster the air will release to the exhaust and thats when u have your Cat for a restriction so u wont lose back pressure

oh ok. good to know that you are so knowledgeable about flow rates, cylinder scavenging, and fluid dynamics. thanks for your insightful comments.


yes it was sarcasm. for the most part i am a very liked and likeable person here, but i am sick and tired of people talking about things that they dont know about like it is gospel. do a little looking around here for an article i posted about backpressure and flow rates and see if it makes sense. those flow rates and pipe diameters play a huge role in power production, especially in headers.

or, go buy your "DR267 Super Sport" (yeah, its a BS name) no-name header and come line up next to me and my DC sports ceramic coated 4-2-1 header. while youre at it, cut your springs and spray paint MUGEN across your hood. oh, and stickers. lots of stickers.






I hope you dont take too much offense to this, but i do hope that you decide you wont just believe everything you hear from friends and read on the internet. and no, im not saying you have to spend a fortune to go fast, but you wont get there buying the cheapest parts you can find. one good part is worth three or four cheap ones. and backpressure being "needed" is a bunch of crap.

and im a little cranky because im sunburned and tired, so maybe we'll have to talk about this tommorrow when i have more patience. sorry if i offended you. nothing personal.

I didnt know jack crap about bacl pressure and all of that until I read Sacicons article... It should be a sticky if it already isnt, ill go look for it.

never mind, its the only sticky in here! lol:D

ORIGINAL: nightrider46
exhaust flow is exhaust flow, pressure is pressure you'll still have the same coming out of the pistons when it makes its explosion it's just matters how thick is the headers cuz the more room it has to push out, the faster the air will release to the exhaust and thats when u have your Cat for a restriction so u wont lose back pressure


Dude! That is not what a Cat is for. And if what you say is correct, then why buy a header at all? Why not stick with the stock exhaust manifold and just buy a good quality Cat? And while you're at it, make sure you buy crush-bent piping for your exhaust instead of mandrel-bent, and make sure they put a few hundred extra bends in the piping since "exhaust flow is exhaust flow".

[sm=nothatway.gif]

hey i'm not offended it's just when me and a friend of mine did the dyno and we have the same everything besides the headers. i have mugen 4-1 and he has DC 4-1, and it showed that that the DC headers had 2 extra hp which is not a big diff to even notice the power. So if u think it's worth to pay an extra 50-100$ for 1-3 hp then ur nuts. U probably could get that hp by making ur timing faster on ur distributor

I don't think I have ever seen someone challenge Sac's knowledge.

$100 for 2Hp? That sounds about right. What happens when you put an IM and TB on there? That 2Hp turns into 5 maybe 6Hp. Everything is designed to work in conjunction. Your exhaust flow is only as strong as it's weakest link. If your header isn't scooting your exhaust gases out of there as fast and efficiently as possible, what's the point of having a $500 cat-back?

Everybody is right when they say over and over that you get what you pay for. There are some parts that I am willing to cut corners on (see: 120 bucks for a Skunk2 shifter knob) but performance parts aren't on that list.

it showed that that the DC headers had 2 extra hp
This makes all warm and fuzzy for spending an extra few bucks on DC. Your buddy and I will be waiting for you at the finish line.

i'm not trying to challenge anyones knowledge, it's just i kno what i'm capable of doing and fixing cuz i do all my seaches and installations myself. but i kno theres still alot that i dont kno but still tring to learn,experiment and understand why and how it works

cool, im glad youre here to learn. ive only had a few people on here that ive had a problem with. i hope youre not one. and how much was the Mugen header? and are you sure it was really Mugen?

it was like 170-180 something like that. it has mugen imprinted on the top of the headers

i have stock 240cc injectors in my b16 and i think the injector on a eclipse (320cc) would fit. By changing the injectors only is there any diff. in HP ?

ORIGINAL: nightrider46

it was like 170-180 something like that. it has mugen imprinted on the top of the headers


It wasnt Mugen for that price.

You my friend got ripped off. You have the no name you are defending.

Mugen header $975.00 (http://www.kingmotorsports.com/product.asp?detail=232)

ORIGINAL: nightrider46

exhaust flow is exhaust flow, pressure is pressure


A car is a car ferrari or daewoo

ORIGINAL: nightrider46

same coming out of the pistons when it makes its explosion


Cylinder, and I think it more of a burn. an explosion is more violent and destructive.





Oh and about the cat being there for back pressure. Its really there to burn up unburnt fuel. Also, if it was there to add backpressure and you needed back pressure why do you get power with a test pipe.

I kno the cat is to burn fuel but maybe if u kno a trick or two of getting hp you'll kno that u get more hp out of ur car when u replace it with a resonator y dont u try taking ur cat out and running a straight pipe and tell me if u lose backpressure or not then come talk, you'll get your gains at higher rpms but your acceleration will suck *cuz of the backpressure is not there*

Actually you get signifigant power with a straight pipe


If you could run straight headers out of the engine and thats it, you would have alot more power. Can you explain why we need back pressure? Ive never heard anyone be able to sy wahy, only that you need it.

when u run a straight pipe straight from the engine all the way down u will lose power espeacilly if u make ur pipe bigger that a 2 1/2 inch. U only do those things when u have turbos or Nos

ORIGINAL: nightrider46

y dont u try taking ur cat out and running a straight pipe and tell me if u lose backpressure or not then come talk


Besides, my turbo causes more then enough back pressure for me. When I run straight pipe at the track I cant really feel any backpressure, althoug I must admit I dont know what backpressure would feel like but there is a most deffinate gain in ponies. (the power ones and the ones I pass, lol)

ORIGINAL: nightrider46

when u run a straight pipe straight from the engine all the way down u will lose power espeacilly if u make ur pipe bigger that a 2 1/2 inch. U only do those things when u have turbos or Nos



So you dont need backpressure with a turbo or NOS? What a bout a supercharger?

u dont need if for a supercharger either cuz you will have enough torque

So back pressure is for torque?

Im not sure but I think you gain less torque with NOS then with a SC?


Again I still would like to know why my car needs back pressure. What does the back pressure actually do to help my car. The way I understand back pressure it would only make sense that it is bad and not good. How could anything putting resistance on the exhaust, which you want out of the way as quickly as possible, make more power. It just seems so contradictive to me. please explain, I truthfully would love to know.

Backpressure is a good thing all cars need it, if u didnt have it u would mess up the internals of ur motor. Backpressure is only used in the beginning for takeoff, y u think u see so many civics so loud and there not going anywhere all u hear is noise. cuz the exhaust is to freely. and y u think when u buy a high performance exhaust system it comes with the cat and the resonator and it garentees u 10- 15 extra hp.

it's hard to explain backpressure but your exhaust have to be alil restricted to run clean and smooth, not noise u hear from blocks away and it's a lil civic going like 20mph. Those kinda of cars are all show no go

holy crap. im sorry, but i have to butt in again. you havent actually explained HOW it helps power. saying that "it would mess up the internals of ur motor" or "backpressure is only used in the beginning for takeoff" doesnt EXPLAIN anything. and when you see those civics with loud exhausts that dont go anywhere, thats because they have little tiny stock engines, and a crappy welded on muffler. chances are, most of those civics you see that are really loud and slow, have a cat and a bunch of stock crush bent exhaust piping.

and when you buy a high performance exhaust system, it has a resonator because a lot of people dont want that horrid loud noise you get from not having one. and most performance exhaust systems do NOT come with a cat. in fact, i cant think of one that does. and even if you were to buy a real high-flow cat, not a wanna-be cat thats actually a resonator, its to REDUCE backpressure over the stock cat.

it's hard to explain backpressure but your exhaust have to be alil restricted to run clean and smooth,and no. no, its really not hard to explain backpressure. its bad. period. (http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_39893/tm.htm) do a little homework before you continue to make an ass of yourself. first impressions last a long time.

and y u think when u buy a high performance exhaust system it comes with the cat and the resonator and it garentees u 10- 15 extra hp
Mine didn't come with a cat. So now a resonator is for backpressure?

it's hard to explain backpressure

No it's not. Backpressure = restriction = bad. Period. But I would love for you to prove us all wrong so I can start stuffing crap into my tailpipe.

Dang, you beat me to the post, Sac.

Im welding up my exhaust tip tommorrow at work. Ill take pics and write up a DIY. How much more backpressure could you get then 100%. Ill keep you updated.


In my SI, I had no cat, Greddy header, Greddy Evo exhaust. It was fairly quite when I took off but did take off fairly quickly if I do say so myself.


Am still waiting on why you need backpressure. It doesnt make sense to me that it would help your engine run cleaner, if less exhaust can leave the cylinder, it would actually be running dirtier. Right? I still would very much like to be proved wrong. If someone can give me a reasonable explanation on why the engine needs back pressure I will switch sides on this argument and call eveyone, even Sacicons, an idiot. I am the type of person that needs to understand everything before I belive it though.

Not to jump off the subject but why the hell does LEVIII's sig link to a Denny's menu?

Whats the matter? You dont like Dennys?

I like they way u guys think u kno what ya'll talkin about. just read understand and learn ok. "THis is for SAC and STREET SNIPER"

read this artical and if it's not good enough show me a diff one.

if you want top end, then the less restriction the better, but some is needed
for maximum torque. This relates to intake systems also.
http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/CatalyticConvertors.html

Yeah, I read that article. It's really more like a Q&A forum, but the highlights are...

Low end torque needs a certain amount of backpressure to give maximum torque where the cam comes on

But then he says...
I've never heard numbers on the decrease in torque by doing this.
Even your "expert" has no facts, figures, dynos, or anything to back up his need for backpressure.

He went on to explain that backpressure is also needed in the intake system also to maximize the low and top end which is why some sophisticated systems have dual runners.

I believe that the term "backpressure" in his explanation is being interchanged for "effective resonance." Correct me if I am wrong Sac, but intakes and headers (headers specifically) are "tuned" like an organ pipe. Exhaust pulses at different rpm ranges create different resonating frequencies. A finely tuned header or intake can utilize these frequencies to maximize the intake or exhaust velocity. Have you ever seen a giant organ with all of the different pipes? Each pipe is tuned for a different resonating frequency and therefore has different physical characteristics to carry those frequencies; fat, short pipes for the low notes and tall, thin pipes for the higher notes and so on. You couldn't use just one size pipe to play an organ just like your header can't maximally utilize the effective resonance of every rpm's exhaust pulse.

My point is that it's not lack of restriction or "backpressure" that is causing a loss in low end torque, it's the different resonance, because most quality exhausts are tuned to be most effective when your engine is really singing... in the higher rpm's. You could just as easily tune an exhaust with little or no backpressure to retain the low end and give nothing on the top end.

is that your theory or is it proven? cuz as far as i kno there is no right or wrong answer untill proven if u find anything hit me up with a link

hi, guys i'm back i decided to go for the term "what you pay is what you get" so I decided to go for the DC sport headers, I also bought a resonator from e-bay, what is the difference between a resonator and a catalytic converter.

I thought this thread was about headers.........

ORIGINAL: manzanaresantonio
what is the difference between a resonator and a catalytic converter.


A catalytic converter treats the exhaust before it leaves the car and removes a lot of the pollution.

The reduction catalyst is the first stage of the catalytic converter. It uses platinum and rhodium to help reduce the NOx emissions. When an NO or NO2 molecule contacts the catalyst, the catalyst rips the nitrogen atom out of the molecule and holds on to it, freeing the oxygen in the form of O2. The nitrogen atoms bond with other nitrogen atoms that are also stuck to the catalyst, forming N2.

The oxidation catalyst is the second stage of the catalytic converter. It reduces the unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide by burning (oxidizing) them over a platinum and palladium catalyst. This catalyst aids the reaction of the CO and hydrocarbons with the remaining oxygen in the exhaust gas. For example:

The third stage is a control system that monitors the exhaust stream, and uses this information to control the fuel injection system. There is an oxygen sensor mounted upstream of the catalytic converter, meaning it is closer to the engine than the converter is. This sensor tells the engine computer how much oxygen is in the exhaust. The engine computer can increase or decrease the amount of oxygen in the exhaust by adjusting the air-to-fuel ratio. This control scheme allows the engine computer to make sure that the engine is running at close to the stoichiometric point, and also to make sure that there is enough oxygen in the exhaust to allow the oxidization catalyst to burn the unburned hydrocarbons and CO.


The Resonator

Some cars, especially luxury cars where quiet operation is a key feature, have another component in the exhaust that looks like a muffler, but is called a resonator. This device works just like the resonator chamber in the muffler -- the dimensions are calculated so that the waves reflected by the resonator help cancel out certain frequencies of sound in the exhaust.


Hope this helps you understand the difference.

nightrider46....sorry to butt in on this whole forum-war you guys got going...but just think about all the components of a "good" exhaust system. Free-flowing headers, 2.5" piping, then a big ol' muffler. Every single component is more free flowing than the stock one, so how can you say a smaller, more restrictive pipe will give you better torque? If this is true, why dont you get more restrictive headers and 1" piping all the way back? Sorry man...just gettin my opinion out there...

Holy thread from the dead.