ROCK THE D

Note: I'm not trying to start a debate over people who can afford or love their B-Series Engines, just trying to show people why they might want to stick with their single cam slammaa

Now this is going to be a General Idea nothing of course is going to be exact because its just not possible.

Also these are general prices of swaps and info, this is not including the price of aftermarket parts, labor, shipping and anything else you might need!!!

Basics of Engine Swaps: what fits in what

Overview

In order to properly cover every aspect this section will be broken down into many sections. First, its important to decide what you’re goals are. If you’re interested in running 15 second quarter miles without hassle or complication then finding a D16 is probably your best bet. Some of us are interested in running 11 and 12 second quarter miles. For this type of performance it’s important to plan every detail so that the engine is capable and reliable when asked to perform. Another part of planning that should be done before the swap begins is whether or the engine will be naturally aspirated or have forced induction. These are all questions that need to be answered before the swap so that you’re satisfied when everything is complete.
Now we all no that in able to run a D16 motor NA you should pretty much show to get that much power and Speed you are not going to Be able to just drop it in a 90 Crx Si and run it daily on 91 pump gas. So lets just get that out of the way for all "Fast and The Furious" Believers.

Finding the Proper Engine:

There are many engine choices for each vehicle so we’ll cover all of them. First it’s important to understand that On Board Diagnostics play a large role in which engines are easiest and recommended. All Honda’s 1991 and earlier are considered OBD 0. This means that the engines don’t utilize any oxygen sensors and have little in the way of emissions control. Next there are OBD 1 engines that are found in all cars from 1992-1995. These vehicles have traditionally been the best platform for the most “factory-like” hybrids. Finally, anything from 1996-1998 is OBD 2. 1999-2000 is OBD 2b. It’s also important to remember that its only legal to swap in engines of the same or newer OBD series. That is to say that an OBD2 engine can be placed into a 1988 CRX legally and without many wiring problems. Consequently its illegal in most states to use OBD 0 engines in cars that should have OBD1 or OBD2 power plants. Of course there are people who disregard these laws and regulations but its not recommended or necessarily that easy.

4th Generation:

1. ZC,JDM D15B, D16Z6/Y8 : Completely Bolt-In Swap. On the Z6 and Y8 you will have to switch out engine mount from factory EF engine over to New z6/y8 Engine. Now you can Easily get one of these engines if you know your basic resources.
Transmission: Use ZC/ Now for Tranny of course just use 88-91 Si Tranny for best Gearing. You can use Dx 5spd but you do have different final Drive so thats why alot of people try to get there hands on SI tranny.
Shift Linkage: Use stock Civic/CRX shift linkage
Axles: Stock Civic/CRX
Wiring: Retain stock harness
Upper Radiator Hose: stock
Lower Radiator Hose: stock
Throttle Cable: stock
*There may be clearance issues with the ZC, either a new hood, trimming of the old hood or trimming the valve cover is required.
Now for prices of these to go For instance In your 90 Civic Si.
SOHC ZC 120HP $390 plus shipping For complete longblock
DOHC ZC 129HP $525 plus shipping For complete longblock
JDM D15B Vtec 130HP $435 plus shipping complete longblock
USDM D16Z6/Y8 Depending on who you know you can usually get a longblock for around $400 pretty easy or around 800 or so for complete engine/Tranny w/ all accessories.
Now being that you have EF You really have no use for the Hydro Tranny so you can definately get rid of that for around 250 easily if it is in good working condition. Along w/ all the extra parts you will have you can easily sell them to make money back or just keep them incase you ever need to replace something.




2. B16A: 160Hp Full engine swap w/ tranny $1499.99 plus shipping
Mount kit required Hasport EFB1 399.99 plus shipping
Transmission: S1, J1, A1, Y1 or YS1 comes w/ engine ordered
Shift Linkage: Need adjustable shift linkage from Hasport or shortened shift linkage from 90-93 Integra Hasport linkage around $250
Axles: B16A Axles usually come w/ swap but always fukked up anyways.
Around $70 Apiece
Wiring: DX, LX, and Standard (dual point injection) models the wiring needs to be modified for port injection first. To use PR3 or PW0 four wires need to be added, VTEC, VTEC oil pressure, knock sensor and second O2.
Upper Radiator Hose: 92 GSR, trim to fit $15 from autopart store
Lower Radiator Hose: 90 Integra, trim to fit $15 from autopart store
Throttle Cable: Use oem
Clutch Cable: Stock
Air Conditioning: Use Hasport AC bracket with stock AC compressor.Not really needed who does a engine swap and keeps AC /??
Chassis Prep: Make a dent on the left-hand frame rail for alternator pully clearance.
Emissions: Purge cutoff solenoid valve needs to be Teed into the fuel pressure regulator for vacuum source.
Now just too do the old plain Jane b16 w/ no upgrades and hoping you wont have to by miscellanous parts "WHich You will", the cost is around $2318.99 not counting shipping and also assuming that you are doing swap yourself or w/ some of your buddies for some beer.

3. B18A: Non Vtec 145 HP Engine w/ Tranny complete $2200
Mount kit required Hasport EFB1 mounts $399.99
Transmission: S1, J1, A1, Y1 or YS1 Comes w/ engine swap
Shift Linkage: Need adjustable shift linkage from Hasport or shortened shift linkage from 90-93 Integra Hasport $250
Axles: B18B Axles $70 Each from autoparts store
Wiring: For Si, EX, and HF (port injection) models modify the engine harness to fit. DX, LX, and Standard (dual point injection) models the wiring needs to be modified for port injection. Custom wiring harnesses are available for dual point injection applications from Hasport.
Upper Radiator Hose: 92 GSR, trim to fit $15
Lower Radiator Hose: 90 Integra, trim to fit $15
Throttle Cable: OEM
Clutch Cable: Stock
Air Conditioning: Use Hasport AC bracket with stock AC compressor.
Chassis Prep: Make a dent on the left-hand frame rail for alternator pully clearance.
Well for this Swap your looking around $3019.99 like said before this is not including shipping and handling, labor fees and whatever else you might need to finish swap.

OBD1-OBD2 Engine Swaps into 89-91 Civic/CRX

To install an OBD1-OBD2 engine into your 4th Generation Civic/CRX the following adjustments will need to be made. First, if your car has dual point injection a conversion will need to be made to port injection. All Integra's 1994 and up and Civic's 1992 and up all use hydraulic transmissions. Therefore its not compatible with 4th Gen Civic's because these vehicles have cable transmissions. To complete the swap a B-series cable transmission will need to be used or a cable-hydro transmission conversion will need to be made. The left side bracket needs to be changed to a 1990-1993 Integra bracket.
For the ECU, it is best to use the ECU which belongs with the engine. Several wiring adjustments will need to be made to make the engine run correctly.
For LS-VTEC's, CRVTEC's and other Frankenstein's it is easiest to use the ECU that corresponds to the distributor and head. There are also reprogrammed ECU's which can be considered.

4. B16A2 $2250 plus shipping/B16B $3850 plus shipping:
Mount kit required Hasport EFB1 399.99
Transmission: Now with these swaps you will not be able to use the tranny that is provided w/ engine bec

rocking the D here............well im boosting it. lol

http://sohchonda.com/faq/newbie.shtml

all that needs to be said right there

Keeping my D17 going FI next summer.... hopefully. Prolly not but hey one can wish. Soon, very soon.

Now with that setup alone I ran 14.6

Damnit. I knew I should have stayed N/A and built it. The lure of the SC was just too great. I am definitely building a N/A D for my next project.

why not build the D and just turn up your boost controller.........oh nevermind..........lol J/K

Yeah that's funny, CEL boy.

No MAS CEL MI AMIGO. I fixed that $hit!


fuggin loose ground wire off the ECU

post a vid of a good pull then man

if you got money...B will be better than D. a built B will eat a built D alive.

exactly. the B isnt about economy, its about potential.

ORIGINAL: sacicons
exactly. the B isnt about economy, its about potential.


And the D is about availability, economy, and low weight.

Gotta give props to the B. But can't hate on the D. Doesn't matter though. Cuz Im rocking the best...THE K! Suckas! Just messing with you guys.

There whole thing about it is how many will use the full abilities of a fully built B series, you can get great numbers out of a D series for a fraction of the cost and with that also comes the pride in knowing you did not jump on the bandwagon just so people can hear the vtec kick in.

oh, dont get me wrong, I love the D series too. but i like that right now I have a very reliable high 14 second car with a pretty stock motor. the reliability is great, the power is great, and i know that when i decide to drop more money into it, it will net me more gains. if i had gone turbo on the stock motor (not really an option anymore, since i swapped due to a spun rod bearing in the d15.) i "might" have been able to get "close" to the 165-170 hp i now have at the wheels. but that would be pushing quite a bit of boost on some really tiny rods. and i will never believe that a d15 at 9-10psi will ever be as reliable as a stock b18c1. so even though they both have their advantages, and you really wont go wrong with either, I like knowing that the potential is there, ready to be unleashed by a weekend of bolt-ons.

lot's of people will be perfectly happy with 170hp N/A on a d-series, not to mention the cash in their pocket.

but 170 whp on an NA d series isnt easy. and if youre pushing it that hard, its not going to be nearly as reliable as my stock gsr.

it all depends on what you wanna do with your car really. if you just want a dual duty street car with a little power and in the 15s or 16s at the track then the D will suit you fine. but if you wanna full-race track-day car then youd be infinately better off with a B

and personally, id rather have cash under my hood than in my pocket, because its a lot harder to get it stolen from you when your walkin around downtown ;):D

you can pull 170whp out of a D with no problems if it is built correctly. 11.5/1 compression with a set of ITB's and fuel management coupled with 93 octane gas will net you this with a good tunning session on a dyno. Also a good header will go along way in helping this I'm talking a $600+ header not a DC Sports or what ever are the popular "cheap" headers. One more thing a built all motor D series + a lightened up eg hatch will be quick and great for track use if wanted(Road Courses not Drag)

oh yeah. the light weight of a d series makes it great for road courses and auto-x. but that build youre talking about isnt going to be much (if any) cheaper than my b18. i mean, ITBs alone go for damn near 2000. even homemade they are around a grand. with a good header, and the internals, youre into it as much as a gsr motor, with about the same power. granted, yours will weigh a bit less, but youre also getting into the point of diminishing gains on the D, so getting furthur into mods will get more and more expensive, with less and less gains each time. and then you start figuring that i can get a brand new tranny with an LSD for about 1500-1600 bucks, and a quality LSD for a d series will cost over half of that, let alone install and downtime.

Some people like the underdog though man, I for one think a B series swap is a waist when if your willing to get your hands dirty a H22 can be put in for the same cost as your average B18C swap and have ITR power with TQ that laughs at B series swaps built or not

yeah, but in my case, i would rather get the power out of a b series with bolt ons, because then i can avoid that front end push from the overweight engine when im autocrossing, but i blew up my d series, and i needed a new motor, so i got the b series so that i could still have the drag racing potential, as well as good balance for autocross. its more of an all around motor than the H or the D. dead stock its good for both drags and auto-x, and its even fast enough to take to the nearby road courses. and a few bolt-ons should put me right about where i want to be without sacrificing the DD aspect of it. and if i decide to go all out and turbo this motor, it will handle a lot more abuse than an H22, and has a little more aftermarket support.

The H series has just as much aftermarket support as the B series. What exactly is made for a B series that is not made for a H??????

As far as weight, the H series adds 50 to 65 more lbs to a car than a B series all on the front end, relocate your battery to the rear, carbon fiber hood. and 1 counter weight, go to a scale and place the counter weight where it is needed tack weld it and get 50/50 weight distro. All motor the H series can kill any all motor B series out there and if you doubt it then you need to do some research. The B18C5 is by far the best B series out there being fallowed very close by the B20 IMO and you stroke a B18C5 or a B20 and you will get around 2.1 liter displacement max on the street. With the H22 you can push upwards to 2.6 to 2.9 liter displacement and still drive it on the street with a up to par cooling system.

hey check out my post about the new d series engine and pls. give me your advice

good discussion, i'm just trying to show mainly new people that you can start out small, build up your knowledge of your car, and spend less money now. Then upgrade if you're not happy with your current d. You could always upgrade to H,F, B, or just boost or turbo your d later. Seems like whenever a new person comes in....they all think b-series. I have nothing against a b, i just think that d's are too overlooked. You can turbo a d and run 13s (wouldnt be cheap, but neither would running 13s with a b)...good discussion

if i ever did upgrade to b id go b18 or b20

bizzump

ORIGINAL: z6 FoRiLLa

if i ever did upgrade to b id go b18 or b20


id go b18 any day. im stroking the bitch to 2.2 anyway.

do they make stroker kits for D?

ORIGINAL: 97civicturbo

do they make stroker kits for D?


i dont think so...JUN might...but i kinda doubt it

i just wanted to add something i found quite humorous...

"I like my Hondas like I like my women....




.....With D's instead of B's":D

^^ hahahahaha

correct me if I am wrong, but from the top post. Swaping a B16 '99 into a vehicle that used to house a D16 '99 would just be a matter of bolt ons since it is from the same generation? Anyone else done this before?

the engine mounts are the same...but i believe OBD is different, so youd need a different ECU and a wiring harness

bump mcgump

+1 for sticky

'nuffa 'dat. Either sticky it or let it die in peace.

now the k series is the new thing just got done reading the new importtuner on there article on k series motors.

Yeah, they're definitely starting to get more popular... my dad said he's had 3 people come in for info about K-series swaps into 5 and 6Gs within the last 2 or 3 weeks, and one guy who's really interested. Most places still don't have the experience to do them though, because unless you have a full guide from someone who's done it before, you end up having to play a good part of it by ear. But I imagine they'll be close to B-series popularity in a year or two.

My plans are to drop a k into a 91 crx.

what's the mileage on a k-series? just wonderin :D

I just got an e-mail back from Eugene Castro at Pro Street Imports and he suggested swapping my D17A2 with a K20 A2. More power and potential. Can do it for 4 grand incl. Hondata K100. The motor fits right in almost. I've got a Jan. 03 issue of Honda Tuning were they put a K20A2 in a 02' Civic sedan. Done by Hasport. I think I want to boost my "D" instead. Nothing like a turbo. Excp. S/C.

4 grand plus the motor and tranny, right?

He just said K20A2 change-over for 4G's

he probably just means the labor and accessories, as thw swap itself, without mounts or most of the little things usually go for over 5k, no labor included.

well i say give them some time because its all bussiness you know. if there demand theres higher prices you know. but to my point of view if you k then you must have some money in that pocket cause the motor is over 4 gs and the swap is over 1g

screw the K :D

just checkin out my old thread. Still rockin the d. lol, nothing against the b's tho.

do u anyone know where i can find a b16a2 wiring loom for honda civic ek please

You're an idiot.

Let the thread die?

ORIGINAL: SevenKRedline

You're an idiot.

Let the thread die?



he's obviously a newb and didn't know where to post, no need to bash.


Wire loom can be bought almost anywhere. Hardware and electronic stores would be your best bet