I drive a BMW as you can see, but i would like to build a fast "egg" if it can save me some money... I dont know if egg is what you guys use but that is what my friends call those hatch civics with engine swap + turbo... They peel out all the way through 3rd the one time i saw one floor it on the road, that is sick. How much money would it cost to buy the engine, turbo kit, etc... my brother used to have a 2000 honda civic ex and he put the greddy turbo kit on his car but didnt install the blue box which = not good. SO he dont have that no more :(

Please let me know with this info, thanks

[sm=welcomesign.gif] to HCF. [sm=groupwave.gif][sm=groupwave.gif][sm=groupwave.gif]

Never heard it called "egg" before. Hatch, HB, or Bubble-Back though.

yeah i never heard it called an egg either...Cost depends on what quality your lookin for.....hatch maybe like 3000-4500.....b-series engine 2000-3000....and turbo not sure but they go like 500-3000 depending on quality...donno if those are accurate.....just off the top of my head

id agree with forilla except on the engine...a full b16 swap can be had for 1500 if you look hard enough. if you plan on running the engine stock then a cheaper turbo setup will do you fine...like a custom 'kit' and a garrett T25 turbo. if you plan on building an engine...the same general setup with a bigger turbo...like a T3/T04.

the car could be had for anywhere as low as 1000 bucks if you find one in good condition with a blow engine (since your replacing that anyway) up to 7000 (prolly dont wanna get one that high), then the engine about 1500-3000, then a turbo setup, depending on it, can be had from 700ish-3000. thats the cheapest it will be...prolly in the mid 13s to high 12s depending on the engine you get.

now if you build the engine...it will be more expensive (2000 for car, 3000 for engine, 2000 for internals), but you could run a massive turbo setup (up to and including 5k...those things are awesome) and be making 10s or 11s with 16k or maybe a little under

what type of turbo kits do the really fast civics have on them? is it the drag kit? because my brother had the greddy kit and the civic wasnt really fast, prolly mid to high 14's in the quarter if he would've taken it <---(aint bad though). I have seen civics getting like 10's-11's and so forth... what do you need to do for that, im not really worried about the car issue, just the money issue. Ignore the part about the egg then lol

is the b series engine the best one?
$2000-3000

and is 3000 for the drag kit?
my bro's kit was 1500 when he got it a couple years ago but that isnt the power i am aiming for

if i did all this... would it be reliable? if i made a civic run in 10's-11's would it be a reliable daily driver?

p.s. links to some sites would be awsome!
didnt see the last post until after i wrote all this... sorry if i repeated something
thanks

First of all, don't use a B16 for hardcore boost applications unless you have a s**t-ton of money or you already have a Spoon long block.

Now, as always, I say go with the GSR engine, which shouldn't set you back more than $2,800. The rest of the costs will vary depending on whether or not you're doing your own work.

A 10 second Civic would probably be using a T3/T04B with a really aggressive A/R, or (if they're crazy enough) a T-60. However, for something streetable, I would say go with a GT28RS or maybe a less potent trim on the T3/T04. The advantage of the T-28 is that it spools almost as quick as a T-25 (around 3,100 rpm for full boost) and can put down roughly 375 whp. I would set aside around $2,500 for a good kit plus any extra expenses. You're also going to want an LSD for obvious reasons.

But a lot of getting good numbers out of it is going to be tuning. If you build a 10 second hatch with quality parts and work and tune it right, it will be good to you on the street. And everyone else will go home crying.

do you guys have any web-sites w/ engines, turbo kits, parts, etc??? is the gsr the b18c1 engine out of an integra? can that engine obtain 10's in the quarter? Just tryin to learn this stuff because i am really thinking about doing this and selling my car i have now... thanks

Dude... you gotta bimmer. Expect any part to even fart toward your car with high expenense.


Try here: www.bavauto.com

swap a K20 and boost it lightly. More expensive, bad ass

ORIGINAL: remington870_20ga

Dude... you gotta bimmer. Expect any part to even fart toward your car with high expenense.


Try here: www.bavauto.com


i know about bavauto, it is a bmw parts site, i am not talking about bmw's though... i am not sure what you mean by what you said :)

stock 92-95 hatch can be had for fairly cheap if you find a good sorce(like a older person that is not into imports)

Dont swap, swaps are way over rated just get a 92-95 si hatch with the d16z6 power plant and boost it. I'd say around $2g's for the car, do a compression test and a leak down test to make sure it is running properly and boost the single cam. You can and will be deep into the 13's with this for around $4000 total price if you plan well and read about the stuff. I see people spending way to much money on this crap simply cause they dont do their research.

BTW dont buy a turbo kit, go custom as it will save tons of money and if done correctly yeild a lot better results.

if you find a hatch that has a body in good shape and a blown engine...it shouldnt cost more than 2000. and since your swappin the engine anyways, itd be a good buy.

+1 on the GSR. and yes...it is the B18c1. a good idea would be to swap the b16 head onto your 18 block because 1) it will lower compression and 2) it flows a little better than the GSR head. a b16 head will run around 300-500.

i know theres a small company called Full-Race...theyre not really big...but they were started by some guys just out of college who studied almost every aspect of turbocharging and fixed all the problems they could. it resulted in headers and pipes with almost no backpressure...but the kits are quite expensive. i think stage 1 for a B (i think they say around 450whp) is like 2500ish...up to stage 4 (up to and including 700whp) is 5500. they have kits to keep AC an kits to get rid of AC.

and get a good tune...like a GOOD tune

ok, thanks for all the info everyone!!! ill see what i can do, and keep you all posted :)

ORIGINAL: md420

stock 92-95 hatch can be had for fairly cheap if you find a good sorce(like a older person that is not into imports)

Dont swap, swaps are way over rated just get a 92-95 si hatch with the d16z6 power plant and boost it. I'd say around $2g's for the car, do a compression test and a leak down test to make sure it is running properly and boost the single cam. You can and will be deep into the 13's with this for around $4000 total price if you plan well and read about the stuff. I see people spending way to much money on this crap simply cause they dont do their research.

BTW dont buy a turbo kit, go custom as it will save tons of money and if done correctly yeild a lot better results.


Unfortunately, this won't get him where he wants to be... And saying swaps are overrated is like saying Hondas are German.

ORIGINAL: BMW

ORIGINAL: remington870_20ga

Dude... you gotta bimmer. Expect any part to even fart toward your car with high expenense.


Try here: www.bavauto.com


i know about bavauto, it is a bmw parts site, i am not talking about bmw's though... i am not sure what you mean by what you said :)



For some reason I misread the whole topic completly ! :D


And saying swaps are overrated is like saying Hondas are German.

What!? Are you kidding me? Im going to yell at my dealer right now.

OK 10 second civic

92-95 eg hatch $2000ish
D16Z6-rods, pistons, cam around $1200 for all stuff not installed
Custome turbo setup with uberdata fuel management and a t3 super 60 or a 57 trim t3/t4 should be around $2000
Strip the interior(FREE)
Drag slicks $500

see still d series and still cheaper.

Swaps are over rated how in the hell can you justify a 30 to 50whp gain for $3000 to $4500......what a waist

ORIGINAL: md420

OK 10 second civic

92-95 eg hatch $2000ish
D16Z6-rods, pistons, cam around $1200 for all stuff not installed
Custome turbo setup with uberdata fuel management and a t3 super 60 or a 57 trim t3/t4 should be around $2000
Strip the interior(FREE)
Drag slicks $500

see still d series and still cheaper.

Swaps are over rated how in the hell can you justify a 30 to 50whp gain for $3000 to $4500......what a waist


OK, first of all, he wants something street-friendly, and a T3/60 is NOT street-friendly. Neither is a stripped interior or drag slicks (if you live in any kind of weather). Plus, engine swaps (B-series in partcular) are all about potential; if you build a 10-second D-series, you hit the ceiling pretty fast in terms of what's reasonably priced and readily available. And if you're paying $3,000-$4,000 for an engine swap, you're living in a horrible fantasy world where everything costs about two or three times as much as it should (Great Britain, maybe?)... An LS swap will run you maybe $750 and give you leaps and bounds of an advantage in terms of options and potential.

www.sohchonda.com read up

www.turbod16.com read up

You dont have to swap simple as that, also he said he has a BMW for daily

ORIGINAL: BMW

if i did all this... would it be reliable? if i made a civic run in 10's-11's would it be a reliable daily driver?



Hmm....


And I never once said it can't be done. I've done it myself for people. What I'm saying is that a swap is a better idea in terms of performance, expandability, and reliability when compared with how much money you end up spending. You really can't argue with that...

Yes I can a eg hatch will need to be in the area of 350whp to be in the 10's. For one you will never get in the 10's with any engine w/o a pair of slicks and second a B series will still need to be built to make that power.

Reliability with depend on how well it is put together and tuned no matter what engine you use. B series blocks cant with-stand any more than D series blocks on a daily basis fully built in this power range so unless your looking at 500/600+whp on a fully built DRAG car it is pointless to swap IMO. Also a LS swap will cost more than $750 by the time you add integra axels, a new rear mount, and get rid of the lack luster long geared tranny in favor of the shorter geared B16 tranny.

Fully built D series is in the area of $2000 including transmission work and a aftermarket LSD
A B series swap(LS) will get up around $1500 with just bolt ons

This is not a pissing match it is pure economics. You can have a fully built D16 boosted for the price of a ITR swap making anywhere from 200 to 500whp tuned correctly.

You're completely missing the point. What I'm TRYING to say is that, when all is said and done, you'll still be able to build up the 10-second LS a whole lot more than you'll be able to on the 10-second D, for a WHOLE lot less money. And you don't have to do as much to the B to get the same numbers. Remember, we're not TALKING about doing an ITR swap.

Here, a full LS front clip runs about $900, with everything you need.

Please show me the parts list for the "fully built" 10 second turbo D-series for $2,000...

And the fact remains that running a D-series with a T3/60 on the street is going to make for miserable response.

ORIGINAL: md420

a eg hatch ...


is that where the "egg" name came from? LOL

Yea I have seen them called a "egg"

BTW Kappa22, I will not argue with you man and no hard feelings. Just two different people with two different opinions. I have put out there the option now the dude can make his own choice

I'll drink to that.

But if you have it, I'd still be interested to see the parts list.

Not yet but I do plan a 350whp daily driver JDM D15B with in a year or so, I was going to do a B20 build but my loyal'ness to the single slam simply will not let me do it

I'll give you a parts list, and its more than 2k for sure especially if you ahve to buy a new motor, (since buying a blown hatchie would need one)

d16 motor-$300-500
Fully built Head- $600-1000(depending on cam, porting polishing etc.)Intake Mani $200
Built bottom end- $450 for pistons, $350 for rods, I dont' know how much to sleeve it but its not cheap maybe $500 for arguments sake?
So minimum $1300 for parts for the block. Crankwork?? Oil pump?? Another 150-200 bucks
Fuel managment- Fuel rail($120), high flow pump($80), injectors ($250), FPR($100), management unit $450.
Minimum FM $1000
Turbo Kit worth using 1500-4000, exhaust work 500(mandrel bent)\
clutch/flywheel $500
I'm probably missing things here but minimum you'll need $6k to do a D series the right way

building a D is gunna be WAAAAY more expensive than that. B is a lot cheaper to build. if your building your engine...in the end...a built B that has $5000 of work on it will eat a 5k D series alive

ORIGINAL: 97civicturbo

I'll give you a parts list, and its more than 2k for sure especially if you ahve to buy a new motor, (since buying a blown hatchie would need one)

d16 motor-$300-500
Fully built Head- $600-1000(depending on cam, porting polishing etc.)Intake Mani $200
Built bottom end- $450 for pistons, $350 for rods, I dont' know how much to sleeve it but its not cheap maybe $500 for arguments sake?
So minimum $1300 for parts for the block. Crankwork?? Oil pump?? Another 150-200 bucks
Fuel managment- Fuel rail($120), high flow pump($80), injectors ($250), FPR($100), management unit $450.
Minimum FM $1000
Turbo Kit worth using 1500-4000, exhaust work 500(mandrel bent)\
clutch/flywheel $500
I'm probably missing things here but minimum you'll need $6k to do a D series the right way



You must not have any kind of good source for parts. Around here you can get a D series block for around $50 to $75. You dont need a Fuel Rail and your fuel management price is way to much. Injectors also can be had for far less than $250. It takes research and aligning your self with the right people man which I have done a reasonable job or doing nothing out of this world or anything and I can still cut many of them prices in half.


ORIGINAL: Nail I3unny

building a D is gunna be WAAAAY more expensive than that. B is a lot cheaper to build. if your building your engine...in the end...a built B that has $5000 of work on it will eat a 5k D series alive


But if it is going to be on the street who needs a un-controllable 600hp civic, a eg hatch at that. Potential is overrated if you dont use it. 500 and under hp goes to the D anything over I'd think about swapping(but not a B series)

I'm sorry, really hard not to laugh but, he's wants to build a 10-11 second civic and you don't think he needs an upgraded fuel rail for the extra fuel flow??? Sorry man but that's idiotic. How is my fuel management price to high?? What are you going to use, where do you get it, and how much does it cost? Greddy blue box which isn't even the best you can get runs 450 alone. Throw in a wideband to actually TUNE it and you're looking at 800 just for those two items, and don't try and tell me you can get those items cheaper cuz you can't. As far an injectors, i've seen them for 100 and i've seen them for 300+ depending on where you get them and what cc they are, so 250 is a fair estimate; in pricing its always better to overestimate than understimate when dealing with any kind of budget. As far as the block goes, yeah maybe, but if he wants the vtec model, which I guarentee he will, the head alone will cost him 150-200, and I said MOTOR which includes all the little goodies that dont' come with a block from the junkyard. Plus I didn't even include any transmission work, the cheapest LSD I've found is around 300 dollars, so with labor you might be in 500??? And we all know what happends when you use the cheapest parts, a solid LSD is more like 800 for just the part, which I'm afraid coupled with internals cripples your 2k built d16 theory. I'm glad you can magically cut prices in half, so please start selling them so we can get a good deal too, cuz I don't have access to chop shops where I live. Plus cut my reasonably estimated 6k in half, and you're still 50% higher in cost than you claimed. :)

ORIGINAL: md420

stock 92-95 hatch can be had for fairly cheap if you find a good sorce(like a older person that is not into imports)

Dont swap, swaps are way over rated just get a 92-95 si hatch with the d16z6 power plant and boost it. I'd say around $2g's for the car, do a compression test and a leak down test to make sure it is running properly and boost the single cam. You can and will be deep into the 13's with this for around $4000 total price if you plan well and read about the stuff. I see people spending way to much money on this crap simply cause they dont do their research.

BTW dont buy a turbo kit, go custom as it will save tons of money and if done correctly yeild a lot better results.


i know i represent the d but this guys lookin to run 10s-11s....not d-series material...and if he did go with this it definately wouldn't be street reliable

Agreed

WTF are you guys talking about, first we are trying to hook him up with a fast daily driver then it's a 10 second car. Your not going to have a daily driven 10 second honda civic and have it be worth while. have you guys ever rode in a 12 second civic? At 12 seconds they tend to be a big handfull on the street and walking the line of being daily material. A 10 second civic has no place on the street simple as that.

Regardless of 11 sec car or 13.5 sec car, You still can't do a fully built d series for 2k. That's all I'm saying. If he wants to boost 5lbs and that's it, then yeah, you don't even HAVE to build it, but to build a solid d series for 2k is just not possible.

Thank you Nail I3unny, thank you 97civicturbo, thank you z6 FoRiLLa. I'm glad other people are beginning to chime in here. I was starting to feel kinda bad about proving my point.

You must not have any kind of good source for parts. Around here you can get a D series block for around $50 to $75. You dont need a Fuel Rail and your fuel management price is way to much. Injectors also can be had for far less than $250. It takes research and aligning your self with the right people man which I have done a reasonable job or doing nothing out of this world or anything and I can still cut many of them prices in half.

Ok, if your parts are so much cheaper than everyone else's, why don't you hook the man up with some parts already? I hate to break it to you, but you're really skimping out where it's going to count. You may be able to do a $2,000 build on a D-series, but it's sure as hell not touching even high 11s, and it's not going to hold up very well if it does.

But if it is going to be on the street who needs a un-controllable 600hp civic, a eg hatch at that. Potential is overrated if you dont use it. 500 and under hp goes to the D anything over I'd think about swapping(but not a B series)

Ok, that is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. "Anything under 500 hp goes to the D"? That is just pure ignorance. The bottom line is that powerful B's are cheaper than powerful D's, both in terms of parts AND in how much you shell out tuning and maintaining them.

You're saying he needs 600 hp to hit 10s? Bulls**t. In fact, even a 400 hp B-series is going to respond 3 times as well as a 400 hp D-series for street driving. And just so we're clear here, he IS talking about building a 10-11 second Civic that is friendly on the streets... and THAT is all B-series territory.

I don't care how you slice it. This "$2,000 Miracle Motor" is not getting you into the 11s... or even the low 12s, unless you cut the body out and turn it into a tube chassis.


A 10 second civic has no place on the street simple as that.

Who the hell are you to say that?

I'm sorry md, but just because you say it can't be done doesn't mean s**t. I've driven a mid-11 second 4G hatch that I personally swapped an S2000 drivetrain into on the street, and it's just about the most fun you can have with your pants on. You're really arguing yourself into a corner, and it doesn't sound like you've had a whole lot of experience building engines, working on cars, or even driving for that matter.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Scat-Connecting-Rods-Honda-Civic-all-D16-engines_W0QQitemZ8001982033QQcategoryZ33623QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$270

http://cgi.ebay.com/TURBO-PISTONS-CIVIC-D16-SOHC-WITH-RINGS-NEW-FREE-SHIP_W0QQitemZ8001079596QQcategoryZ33623QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$170

http://cgi.ebay.com/CROWER-HONDA-D16-VTEC-SOHC-TURBO-CAMSHAFT-CIVIC-STAGE-2_W0QQitemZ8002220224QQcategoryZ33614QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$235

I know locally a totally dis-assembled head can get hot tanked, ported & polished, plus decked if needed for like $200 not including the head itself

http://cgi.ebay.com/Race-Springs-and-Titanium-Retainers-Honda-D16Z-Y8-D17_W0QQitemZ8001843763QQcategoryZ33621QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$255



That is $930 for the bottom end do you want me to go any further?

We already mentioned eBay...

Also, you're neglecting some very important money: the actual WORK. I'm assuming, since he doesn't even own a Civic yet (no offense or anything, BMW), that he's not too familiar with engine rebuilds. But maybe you were planning to do that for him at no cost...

Now, you've got to show me a full head build, engine balancing & bluprinting, turbo setup, EMS, tuning, fuel system upgrades, dyno, etc. for just over $1,000... THAT will be a f**king miracle.

Look I never called into question your know how on cars in general but I do call in your know how on the D series platform. You say you swapped a F20C into a 4G hatch bull ****ing **** prove it cause for one the car would need to be made into a RWD and if that was done the damn thing would be in a magazine and the F20 or f22c will not even mount to a fwd transmission cause for one there is not a bellhousing that allows for it and if there were is still would not matter cause the damn thing turns the wrong way meaning unlike other Honda engines the timing belt turns counter clockwise.

Hook yourself up on good prices but if you are going to be stupid and go pay $200 for a D series block wear it out cause that is plain retarded. I never said you need 600whp to get in the 10's either, I was just pointing out what the hell is the point that has all this room to make power if your not going to use it. I see stock d series blocks with stock d series head and junk yard $600 turbo setups slap low 13's daily driven on a regular basis and your going to try and say a built d series will not do 10's LMAO wake up.

Go ahead and hug up on my nuts a lil more simply cause I'm not a bandwagoner that would rather spend $2000 to $4000 to swap in a bigger engine to make up for the lack of ability to do with what I have.

This whole forum is full of mis-information besides a handfull of members. I joined it because another forum I am on came very close to all but killing it in hopes to help the mis-informed but it's people like you that spread bs like you know what the hell your talking about but in all reality you are the one that dont know **** and are no more than another keyboard racer that looks up and regurgitates crap that you have seen others say in the internet

And I said a D series build I did not say a turbo setup and tunning re-read there spanky

First of all, those links were to crappy no name brand ****. Read the auction, those pistons are not even forged, either are the rods. Get a clue. I wouldn't put those parts in my car if you PAID for them. Secondly if you read your own post you DID say "boost the single cam" so eat that **** too. I like my D-series, but jesus you love them so blindly that you are completely sounding like an idiot trying to win an argument. Yes with crappy parts you might be able to build a D series, I could do it for $10: open up the block and throw some rocks with glue inside. Yippie now I build a ****ty D-series. Some of us like to use QUALITY parts to build a QUALITY motor to be RELIABLE and FAST. I have the parts in my garage, the motor is coming out of the shop this week, and have done my research, obviously you have not or you'd know that you would never want to put those pistons and rods inside a motor. Do you want to stick your foot in your mouth again???!!!

Yeah. That's just what I am. I just sit here and talk s**t all day just to piss people like you off. I'm not here to talk s**t. I'm here to talk about cars, so please, enough with the desperate flaming.

My dad has been self employed as a mechanic for about 28 years. I grew up under the hood of a car. I'm part-owner of his business now.

Yes, I have done an F20C/RWD conversion in a 4G hatch. I'll even walk you through it, since it's so "impossible."

The car was shipped to us on a flatbed with no rear suspension and no drivetrain. The customer also bought and shipped an F20C front clip, driveline, and rear suspension that had been pieced together from wrecking yards, auto auctions, etc (all told, about $9,000 in parts). We started by sizing up the suspension as well as performing minor mods to the wheel wells in order to accomodate the parts, then took the measurements to a welder/machinist and had him custom-fab mounting brackets and adaptors in order to hang the suspension. Then we placed the rear diff, had part of the floor cut out to fit it in, and hung it, also with custom fabbed brackets and an additional crossmember. Next, we hung the rear axles, which turned out to be too long (the hatch isn't as wide as an S2K), so we went back to the machine shop and had the guy order a custom set. Then we started working under the hood. We tapped holes for the radiator bolts, reservoir mounts, etc. Then we went and measured for custom motor mounts and crossmembers. We trucked it to the welder and he cut out a section of the floor and firewall down the center of the car in order to accomodate the RWD tranny, after which we placed and measured for the tranny hangers and crossmembers. The guy welded in the new hangers, and we placed the tranny in a preliminary stance so we could finish the driveline. We took in the driveshaft, which was again too long, and had one custom-ordered. With that done, we placed the engine, and found we had to cut a section out of the front under the hood to allow it to clear the radiator. Hung the engine, bolted it up to the tranny and crossmember mounts. Sent it back to the machine shop in order to have them measure, mandrel, and hang a completely custom exhaust system. That's as far as we took it. The clutch, shift linkage, intake system, coolant hoses, rear brakes, etc. were all adapted by another shop, and they finished all the touchy-feely stuff. The car had no power steering or AC. They also added more crossmembers and strut and sway bars to compensate for the structural rigidity that was lost by cutting the floor open and taking a chunk out of the front.

So, what's the craziest build you've done lately?

I was throwing out budget minded products there bro you can on average get pistons for $250 to $350, rods for $400 or so, head studs for $100 and you really need nothing else as far as build and if I was to try and search a custom turbo kit out it would take more than internet links simply cause most the **** you get for them should be locaolly if you want to get a good deal on them.

You also forget(hell probly dont even know at all) that Toyota Supra stock pistons will fit into D series block with a slight mod to the rod. There is no need to sleeve a block unless you plan on running 25psi all the time on it. Just get your intake temps down with a lil nos or a devil's own meth-injection kit($100 or so) and you will be good.

I understand not wanting to do **** the cheap way but you have to draw a line at some point as to what a budget is and cheaper dont allways mean junk

I've done a 32v Northstar V8 into a 85 Pontiac Fiero and raced a 69 Nova putting it into the low 7's(1/8) when I was 17 so no need to judge my past. BTW I was saying that the FWD conversion could not be done not the 4g rwd conversion

Look I'm not trying to piss anyone off man, I just know what can be done and I also think it is stupid to be talking 10 second daily driver with either B or D series cause it is so impracticle it aint funny. Traction, Idle, and all out drive-ability would be a total loss in a civic like this. A week end toy yes, a daily driver IMO no

Yeah, I see what you're saying. The only reason we're even TALKING about a 10-sec daily driver is that's what he asked about... All I'm saying is that a B would be friendlier than a D in that situation.

It may be but man trust me you can get away cheaper with the D

You ever watch a fight and don't want to break it up 'cause you might get hit? That's how I felt with these two (verbally speaking). Is it over yet? LOL!

It never was a fight just 2 enthusiest with different points of view :D

Yup. At least we don't disagree about superchargers vs. turbos... that would be bad.

ORIGINAL: 97civicturbo
How is my fuel management price to high?? What are you going to use, where do you get it, and how much does it cost? Greddy blue box which isn't even the best you can get runs 450 alone.


BTW I just re-read this.

Uberdata + OBD1 P28,P06,P72,P30 ecu = around $200

ORIGINAL: Kappa22

Yup. At least we don't disagree about superchargers vs. turbos... that would be bad.


I have my own opinion on that and it's not too fair to superchargers simply cause I dont think they are worth all the BS for the power output you get, but with time and money invested SC can put up good numbers just in the wrong rpm range for a 2000 to 2500lb FWD car IMO

ORIGINAL: md420

It never was a fight just 2 enthusiest with different points of view :D


Of course, I didn't mean an actual fight, I meant the going back and forth responses and passion you guys have when you talked about the setups and stuff. I don't think anyone really wanted to jump in.

I dont know how this turned into a $2k super motor lol... i didnt say i was on a budget, if i plan on doing this, i would sell my bimmer (dont need that nice of a car at 18) and have a good chunk of money to build something. I will have about $12k-$13k to be exact, and if i dont use all that, then its that much extra cash ill have... I am willing to pay to make this thing work. I just have to keep it under 12k total lol (preferably not using all that money), dont know where the 2k budget thing came from that you guys are talking about at the bottom of the first page.:)

i dont nessicarily NEED it to be a 10 second car, just want it to be very fast, but still streetable... I dont know how fast you can be while still keeping the car streetable, i was assuming you guys could tell me. Also, couldnt you just have a boost controller and keep it on low boost on the street and turn on high when you get to the track? that would help with the streetability of the car, correct?

p.s. the "fight" was entertaining...

ORIGINAL: BMW

I dont know how this turned into a $2k super motor lol... i didnt say i was on a budget, if i plan on doing this, i would sell my bimmer (dont need that nice of a car at 18) and have a good chunk of money to build something. I will have about $12k-$13k to be exact, and if i dont use all that, then its that much extra cash ill have... I am willing to pay to make this thing work. I just have to keep it under 12k total lol (preferably not using all that money), dont know where the 2k budget thing came from that you guys are talking about at the bottom of the first page.:)

i dont nessicarily NEED it to be a 10 second car, just want it to be very fast, but still streetable... I dont know how fast you can be while still keeping the car streetable, i was assuming you guys could tell me. Also, couldnt you just have a boost controller and keep it on low boost on the street and turn on high when you get to the track? that would help with the streetability of the car, correct?

p.s. the "fight" was entertaining...


Now he tells us money is no object. LOL! These guys have the knowledge so it's a matter of how you want to go. With knowledge comes different types of setups so pick one and follow their recommendations.

ORIGINAL: md420


ORIGINAL: Kappa22

Yup. At least we don't disagree about superchargers vs. turbos... that would be bad.


I have my own opinion on that and it's not too fair to superchargers simply cause I dont think they are worth all the BS for the power output you get, but with time and money invested SC can put up good numbers just in the wrong rpm range for a 2000 to 2500lb FWD car IMO


That's pretty much exactly where I'm at.

quote:

ORIGINAL: md420

BTW I just re-read this.

Uberdata + OBD1 P28,P06,P72,P30 ecu = around $200

I'm not going to argue with you man, except for an article I JUST read, I didn't even know what uberdata was, and by the looks of it you have to make it yourself(I could completly be wrong, but it said you buy stuff from radio shack to build it, so I'm assuming). If you have the time and are able to custom fab those things, all power to you. Unforntunately you're forgetting the reality that a lot of people don't. You can always cut corners, do work yourself, buy inferior product etc to lower the price. I'm not saying this is wrong, bad or that no one COULD/SHOULD do this, all I'm saying is when an obvious newb to the import building scene wants advice, give them realistic advice about the costs involved, not how much it might cost YOU personally, that's the only problem I have with what you were saying. Not just anyone can build motors for the price you can.

BTW Kappa did you get my msg?

Yes you could do that with the boost controller, only ONE small problem though lol, ACTUALLY keeping the boost down when you're not at the track :P I know that's going to be my problem.

ORIGINAL: 97civicturbo

Yes you could do that with the boost controller, only ONE small problem though lol, ACTUALLY keeping the boost down when you're not at the track :P I know that's going to be my problem.


so then what your saying is that i can have a street 10-11 second civic... other people are saying that you dont want that because you wont get traction at all on the street, but if i ran at low boost on the street, it could be streetable? i understand that i wouldnt want to have no traction when driving normal, so i was just tryin to think of a way to have best of both worlds... my friend has an eclipse and he has like 12lbs of boost on low and around 20 on high boost

Yeah you can do that, its what I am planning on doing. It also depends which turbo you use, mine shouldn't see full boost until close to 4k RPM's. I can stay well below that when DDing anyways, so you can stay out of full boost anyways, if you go with a smaller turbo that spools faster however, you might not be able to do that. All depends on what you want to accomplish. The reason I chose to fully build the block and head, is because I truly believe your car should be built beyond what you plan to push it. If you wanna push 15 lbs of boost, build it for 20, if you wanna hit 20 build it for 25, that way you can feel confident that you're vehicle won't blow up. If you needed a 40 gig hard drive, would you buy a 40, no you'd buy a 60 or 100 even, so you know you won't fill it up. if you want to do anything past stock boost, which is usually around 6psi, I woiuld plan on spending at least 4k in PARTS, plus the cost of the car. Headwork isn't a must, but hey, why not rev to 8500 instead of 6900??? hehe just my 2 cents.

now where can i find a b18c built for under $5k ... and when im talking built, port, new gaskets/seals, pistons etc.

After i get my Tein SS coilovers im saving for the b18c swap.. so yeah i would love to know where i can get one for that cheap. Cause i too want a reliable daily with a turbo'd b18.

if you wanna buy it so its built, get Mugen or Spoon. theyre not good for FI, but if you lower the compression theyre some seriously badass engines.

Spoon assembled B18C Type R runs about $5,500... Stock Honda internals, Fully balanced, 11.3:1 CR, ~200 ATC

i did the currency conversion off the spoon website...if you get it ordered directly from japan its a little under 4k (not including shipping of course)

So would a spoon engine make a good daily driver and still run low 13's? The question is.. does it come with the ECU and tranny like other packages or a clip would..

I think all of you guys need to get a grip on reality. Running 10's is not that easy. Doesn't matter what car you drive it's hard to do and takes a lot of patience, power, traction, and most important money. How many of you guys posting on here even run 14's? I think the only people who need to post to this thread are the ones who are actually running 10's.........which none of you are even close. It is **** like this that gives you honda guys a bad name. I have numerous friends who are into hondas and let me tell you guys, they have invested $20K+ in these cars to get them to come even close to mine.......when they are running. There is so much little stuff that adds up that you don't even think about. What makes you guys think you aren't going to blow up stuff? Every turbo honda I know hasn't had the engine last for more than 5K miles. YOU ARE GOING TO BREAK STUFF!! about 1/3 of the cost is going to be replacing broken parts. So you guys who are spitting out this recipe to "run 10's for $5K" need to take a step back and realize that you can't slap a couple parts on and run 10s because it just doesn't work that way. BTW I own a Honda that I drive everyday and love it.

wow...ego much?

k look...were not talking about running tens for under 5k. were talking about running twelves for about 7 or 8k. and its not that hard to get under fourteens with a civic. a stock GSR costs about 2.7k, and will run mid 14s stock. stroke it and build it, takes another 3k for the sleeves and a strong ass stroker kit with 4340 billet rods and low comp pistons, your into thirteens. get valvetrain and cams, and a port and polish job, another 2k, your into low thirteens, high twelves. and if youve built it right and all the work on it is done right, put on a big turbo kit and your in the elevens. thats about 10k right there.

lol I was on the verge of 13's with a stock single cam and a $700 HMT setup in a heavy ass 98 4 DOOR

With only 9psi from a dinky ass 2nd gen mitsu t25

at least you held with the supercharger guys with it :D:D


LMAO jk Sniper and Polo

It was rather funny cause I would spank greddy turbo kitted civic of the same gen. while running lower boost and half the price lol. Damn shame I wrecked the car because low 13's would have been seen by now

ORIGINAL: Poopy

I think all of you guys need to get a grip on reality. Running 10's is not that easy. Doesn't matter what car you drive it's hard to do and takes a lot of patience, power, traction, and most important money. How many of you guys posting on here even run 14's? I think the only people who need to post to this thread are the ones who are actually running 10's.........which none of you are even close. It is **** like this that gives you honda guys a bad name. I have numerous friends who are into hondas and let me tell you guys, they have invested $20K+ in these cars to get them to come even close to mine.......when they are running. There is so much little stuff that adds up that you don't even think about. What makes you guys think you aren't going to blow up stuff? Every turbo honda I know hasn't had the engine last for more than 5K miles. YOU ARE GOING TO BREAK STUFF!! about 1/3 of the cost is going to be replacing broken parts. So you guys who are spitting out this recipe to "run 10's for $5K" need to take a step back and realize that you can't slap a couple parts on and run 10s because it just doesn't work that way. BTW I own a Honda that I drive everyday and love it.


I really don't have the time or the energy to give another lecture right now, so I'm just going to say f*ck you and your poor attitude. What gives you the right to walk in on something you really don't have a grasp of and start telling everyone around you their business?

a open deck D aint gonna make enough power to get into the 10s or 11s.

Amen.

wow, i posted that, then realized there were like 2 more pages i hadnt seen.[:@] i deleted myself...kind of a moot point by now.

Hey kappa **** you too :). Just for your guys info, I had a hatch that ran an 11.4 about a year ago and I have personal experience with this process. I had so much money tied up in that thing it was pathetic. My Laser was my daily driver for 3 years before I realized how easy it was to make fast. So no I am not talking out of my ass when I post stuff. Unlike kappa who probably is on the verge of breaking 16s lol. I was not starting a flame war, just clearing up some bull**** that was posted. It does take a lot of money to take a honda beyond 13s which I have already done. Whoever said it doesn't take much to take a honda CIVIC beyond 14's........so a motor swap isn't much?? I ran a 13.9 on my laser with a $50 dollar boost controller, that to me isnt much. So kappa please lecture me and tell me something I don't know:D.

Well, you really don't know s**t about me for starters. I'm not even trying for 16s right now, because I DON'T HAVE A CAR. Yes, that's correct. I just sold my most recent one. But here's what I've been through so far (at age 19).

'90 HB, ZC swap - sold
'91 Si HB, LS swap, full internal build, chipped - sold
'93 Laser RS Turbo, 16G - sold
'89 HB, LS swap, S14 T28, LSD - sold
'96 GSX, fried the T-25 - sold
'90 HB, ZC swap, built, balanced, chipped - sold
'91 GSX, T3/T04 swap, VTA - sold
'95 S14 Silvia, R33 RB26DETT swap - sold
’90 Si HB, ZC swap, full build - sold
'90 HB, ZC swap - I was going to build it/boost it, but I sold it because I want to build a 240.

Not to mention having actually done more engine swaps, builds, and repairs than you can imagine (my dad's a self-employed mechanic, so I've been under the hood for a while...)

But no, I haven't ever had a Civic that I took into the 12s. The fastest Civic I owned was the '89 LS swapped one, which I put into the mid-low 13s before I sold it. My S14 ran low 12s on street tires and a stock engine, but that doesn't really count, does it?


Anyway, I really don't believe it takes as much as you say it does. I realize it takes a lot, but not if you think about the grand scheme of things (I'll use my LS HB as an example, since I was very familiar with it):

Car (stock interior, nothing stripped): $550
LS front clip: $985
B16 tranny: $300
S14 kit (stripped from a blown SR20 in a wrecking yard, with FMIC. Got a Walbro 255 too): $550
LSD: $780 (rebuilt)
Custom fab piping: $250
DSM 440s: $10 each
Other odds and ends: $200 (estimate)
ECU mapping, engine tuning: free (DIY)

Total (for a low-mid 13 car): $3,655

Doesn't look too bad to me...

Now I know those next 10ths would have cost significantly more (full internals, balancing, head work, new turbo/compressor setup) but after that, you reach another plateau where you can continue to improve your time with nothing more than careful tuning and adjustment instead of a s**tload more money.

It's not necessarily a question of how much money you want to spend, but how much time you want to commit to your project. Yeah, a 1G GSX takes hardly anything to hit 12s, and you can run 400 whp on stock internals every day, but in a lot of ways it's a lot more satisfying to be able to dust LS1's in a 17 year old, FWD hatchback.

So the bottom line here is don't tell people they're wasting money just because you don't like what they're doing as much as they do.

ORIGINAL: Poopy

Hey kappa **** you too :). Just for your guys info, I had a hatch that ran an 11.4 about a year ago and I have personal experience with this process. I had so much money tied up in that thing it was pathetic. My Laser was my daily driver for 3 years before I realized how easy it was to make fast. So no I am not talking out of my ass when I post stuff. Unlike kappa who probably is on the verge of breaking 16s lol. I was not starting a flame war, just clearing up some bull**** that was posted. It does take a lot of money to take a honda beyond 13s which I have already done. Whoever said it doesn't take much to take a honda CIVIC beyond 14's........so a motor swap isn't much?? I ran a 13.9 on my laser with a $50 dollar boost controller, that to me isnt much. So kappa please lecture me and tell me something I don't know:D.


Well it took me under $1000 to get to 14.3 in my 98 civic sedan and that would have been in the 13's if I did not wreck it. I am now working on getting a EF hatch and fully intend for it to be mid 13's with my current setup and low 13's to high 12's with about $700 to $1000 more.

hehe wow, I haven't logged for a few days and things go nuts in here. Much comedy poopy, I would bow to your infinite knowledge but unfortunately getting that low to the ground just doesn't suit me. Those comments don't help the person who started this thread in the first place poopy, if you don't have anything to help him, (besides calling all of us stupid) please hold your tongue. BTW poopoo, after kappa and I are done with my civic here in a month or so, I'll line up with your laser any day of the week.

Screw the B and the D, go with a k, lower the cr build the motor, then boost it as high as you can and add some juice. After you spend 50,000 on that you should be in 9's and could make it work on the streets.

yeah but the K will cost you an arm and a leg.

No one actually WANTS to drop $4,500 on a motor, then put 50 grand into it...

especially if you can get the same results with a little more work, and a lot less money