Super and Turbo on K20
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HCF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: Idaho Falls
Super and Turbo on K20
Can you put both on those K20 engines? I dont know how superchargers work and I understand a little bit about turbos, but can you finaggle both onto that engine? Is there a better alternative?
HCF Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,168
From: Jersey
RE: Super and Turbo on K20
It is possible, but not worth it. You would be surprised how much you can learn by using the search button on this forum, many of these questions have been asked before, and you can find detailed answers to them by searching.
HCF Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,801
From: NC
RE: Super and Turbo on K20
ORIGINAL: Pete
You would be surprised how much you can learn by using the search button on this forum, many of these questions have been asked before, and you can find detailed answers to them by searching.
You would be surprised how much you can learn by using the search button on this forum, many of these questions have been asked before, and you can find detailed answers to them by searching.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,913
From: Harleysville, PA
RE: Super and Turbo on K20
I'm wondering if I should write a FAQ about this, seems to be a common question.
Anywho, this is the deal.
JRSC works by the engine turning the crank, which uses a complex pulley system to rotate another pulley attached the the supercharger, aka, the nose pulley. This pulley turns two rotors inside of the physical supercharger, which presses air into what's called an intake plenum. This is how the supercharger creates what we know as boost.
A turbocharger works by using the exhaust gases to push atmospheric air into a set of pipes and into the intake manifold. Once the charge pipes are successfully charged, the turbine will continue to spin faster thus pushing more and more air into the piping once again creating "boost."
As you can see, the methods of performing the action are different and at the same time similar. It's all about pressurizing the intake manifold (in a turbochargers case the intake consists of everything post compressor wheel to intake valves).
So, how do you get this to work in conjunction. There are two different methods, one is used by Mercedes and the other is a bit more practical way that can be used on a Honda.
Mercedes method is the use of a clutch system. Basically, the clutch is programmed to disengage at a certain engine RPM and load. So basically, the supercharger does it's job at the bottom of the RPM range until the turbo comes to a predetermined boost setting (generally when it creates the same psi as the supercharger). The clutch will then disengage, allowing the nose pulley to spin freely and NOT rotate the rotors, thus allowing the turbocharger to do it's work just as it would with a normal intake manifold. Pretty simple concept... good luck doing it on a Honda.
The Honda way is a bit more complex, but it's pretty easy to grasp. Basically, like I said, the supercharger needs to be able to pressurize the plenum in order for it to create boost. Basically what is done is to weld a large pipe into the side of the intake manifold. At the end of this pipe, a butterfly valve is attached (same thing as an ecutout) and is controlled using basically a wastegate set to open at a certain PSI. This is all routed through a T that directs air both into the blower, and into the intake plenum (once the valve is opened). This is how it works. Say your charger makes 8psi, and your turbo is set to make 15psi. The supercharger will make boost almost immediately, pressurizing the plenum and spinning to 8psi quickly. Then your turbocharger will begin to make boost, once it reaches about 5psi the wastegate actuated butterfly valve will begin to open. What does this do? It recirculates the plenum, thus disallowing the supercharger to effectively create boosting conditions. When the turbo has reached and surpassed 8psi, the valve is completely open and the supercharger is spinning freely, with the turbo pressurizing the intake plenum instead.
What does this mean? Simple, a predictable torque graph. That means good solid traction and a vehicle that takes advantage of the low end along with the high end!
Tuning is a bit difficult, and it's more of a road course setup than a drag setup. But it's possible, just expensive and time consuming.
Anywho, this is the deal.
JRSC works by the engine turning the crank, which uses a complex pulley system to rotate another pulley attached the the supercharger, aka, the nose pulley. This pulley turns two rotors inside of the physical supercharger, which presses air into what's called an intake plenum. This is how the supercharger creates what we know as boost.
A turbocharger works by using the exhaust gases to push atmospheric air into a set of pipes and into the intake manifold. Once the charge pipes are successfully charged, the turbine will continue to spin faster thus pushing more and more air into the piping once again creating "boost."
As you can see, the methods of performing the action are different and at the same time similar. It's all about pressurizing the intake manifold (in a turbochargers case the intake consists of everything post compressor wheel to intake valves).
So, how do you get this to work in conjunction. There are two different methods, one is used by Mercedes and the other is a bit more practical way that can be used on a Honda.
Mercedes method is the use of a clutch system. Basically, the clutch is programmed to disengage at a certain engine RPM and load. So basically, the supercharger does it's job at the bottom of the RPM range until the turbo comes to a predetermined boost setting (generally when it creates the same psi as the supercharger). The clutch will then disengage, allowing the nose pulley to spin freely and NOT rotate the rotors, thus allowing the turbocharger to do it's work just as it would with a normal intake manifold. Pretty simple concept... good luck doing it on a Honda.
The Honda way is a bit more complex, but it's pretty easy to grasp. Basically, like I said, the supercharger needs to be able to pressurize the plenum in order for it to create boost. Basically what is done is to weld a large pipe into the side of the intake manifold. At the end of this pipe, a butterfly valve is attached (same thing as an ecutout) and is controlled using basically a wastegate set to open at a certain PSI. This is all routed through a T that directs air both into the blower, and into the intake plenum (once the valve is opened). This is how it works. Say your charger makes 8psi, and your turbo is set to make 15psi. The supercharger will make boost almost immediately, pressurizing the plenum and spinning to 8psi quickly. Then your turbocharger will begin to make boost, once it reaches about 5psi the wastegate actuated butterfly valve will begin to open. What does this do? It recirculates the plenum, thus disallowing the supercharger to effectively create boosting conditions. When the turbo has reached and surpassed 8psi, the valve is completely open and the supercharger is spinning freely, with the turbo pressurizing the intake plenum instead.
What does this mean? Simple, a predictable torque graph. That means good solid traction and a vehicle that takes advantage of the low end along with the high end!
Tuning is a bit difficult, and it's more of a road course setup than a drag setup. But it's possible, just expensive and time consuming.
HCF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,193
From: USA
RE: Super and Turbo on K20
LOL the fact that a honda has no torque is great for tires.
And anyways, the turbo/super combo is not all that uncommon (detroit deisels have had them for years) and does work, but that's way too much time and money for what little gains you would make.
And anyways, the turbo/super combo is not all that uncommon (detroit deisels have had them for years) and does work, but that's way too much time and money for what little gains you would make.