Nitrous, Super Chargers, & Turbos - Supercharger Or Turbo?

Hi, I live in a place where the speed limit id pretty lo. however I do speed sometimes like we all do [X(]. I am thinking of either a Turbo or supercharger. Now bear in mind I won't be installing this myself, it'll be a garage, so cost of this installation is a factor, which is sheaper to install? Also, its a b16a EG Hatchback. So what brand do you recommend? What other upgrades do I need? Cams? Valves? etc? Whats easier?? I have a decat magnaflow exhaust system and supersprint header and an intake. Thats all the mods i've done at the moment. At the moment I'm leaning toward a supercharger. But VTEC Turbo sounds good too. Will they boost together??

Engine :
http://images8.fotki.com/v123/photos/6/62440/460093/civicengine-vi.jpg

supercharger will be cheaper. especially jackson racing.

install may be a little cheaper, but the JR init is a grip. look into a greddy kit, i see them on ebay for like 26-2800 with an intercooler. also, edelbrock makes a kit, im not sure if they have one for the b-series yet, but their kit comes COMPLETE. its more pricey than the greddy though.

[Deleted by Admins]

Price range is going to be effected by how much boost you plan on running. If you want to be at say 15 psi then you are going to need to get forged pistons, etc. Personally I prefer turbos to superchargers, even though I've got a Mini Cooper S (supercharged). I just think there is more room to work with with a turbo. From what I've seen, turbos tend to be cheaper then superchargers for a full kit. I've seen a mediocre supercharger kit for about the same price as a Rev Hard stage 2 kit. But go and read "The official Supercharger vs Turbo thread!!!" and read all the arguments on there before you make a final decision.

ORIGINAL: LEVIII

do both!


I'm sure it's possible, but WHY? :-D

Both is possible! They had stock cars from Lancia. Called a Delta Intragale. Don't know if you guys get them in the states?
Anyway, I have read the Legend Post that is Turbo vs Supercharger. But I am still not sure. I don't want my engine to blow up thats my main concern. I really don't know about PSI or boost?

ORIGINAL: hondafreek
I really don't know about PSI or boost

You need to learn otherwise you can scew up your engine pretty bad.

yeah, its best to know what youre talking about when it comes to forces induction. and Meguirs(sp?) the company that makes the car cleaning things, built an integra type r to run both, on a stock block. the SC ran about 4psi, and the turbo ran about 16.5. so it would spool like hell and then have the top end power of a monster turbo.

Here's some good articles on forced induction to get you started:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm

Go with a turbo its a little more expensive but you'll get more HP but if you have an incredably high hp to start witht then get a supercharger I'll give you more power in the long run

I guestimate that my car is at around 180BHP as it is 160BHP stock. I've done the mods listed abouve so I reckon I should have added a few horses. I am thinking more of a supercharger as it seems there is less to tinker with? I'll have a read of the links. Thanks guys.

Also realize that since the supercharger runs off of belts (energy created by the engine), it actually steals power from the engine. The forced induction, however, makes up for the lost power. But, with a turbo, it uses the exhaust gases (wasted energy) to create the boost, thus having more potential for higher boost/horsepower. I'd also like to add that turbos do not cost more than superchargers.

yeah, sc kits are usually quite a bit more expensive than an average turbo kit.

OK. So what is a good brand of Turbo for Honda?

I know this issue has been brought up before, but with a supercharger, you end up with too much low end torque, making it hard to launch. Sounds like you're on the right track, though (TURBO!!).

GREDDY, Turbonetics, Rev Hard, EDELBROCK, etc. etc. etc. (the caps are the best)

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Im backing the supercharger. Ive had a turbo civic and now have a supercharged Corolla. Personnally the s/c is just funner to drive. I think its that instant feeling of power. Both are great and you will be happy with either.

Cool, I'll have a think and a read of a few pages. Thanks for the help guys. It is appreiated.:D

speaking of which, how did that t25 feel on the gsr? did it give out in third? thats what i usually hear, but 12.8 sounds pretty strong for a t25. was it stock, or did you clip it or something?

Superchargers are DEFINITELY the best. Turbo chargers make your car completely unreliable. In my opinion

not if its properly installed and maintained. and you could say the same for superchargers.

youre just tryin to sell yours;) J/K

ORIGINAL: sfgiants11

Superchargers are DEFINITELY the best. Turbo chargers make your car completely unreliable. In my opinion


Explain your reasoning for how turbochargers make your car any less reliable than superchargers... if you know what you're doing, it'll be just as reliable as stock.

He's just jealous :D

He's just jealous

[sm=icon_ladiesman.gif]

I would reccomend the jackson racing supercharger because they put out numbers on the dyno and are very dependable and not to tempermental as long as u have the intercooler,because the weather is killer where i live in phx az. whole kit to ur door w/o intercooler is $2400 bucks from nopi.com

I noticed that that kit also doesnt come with any necessary piping, etc. It's just the supercharger. I found a turbo kit for $3000 on horsepowerfreaks.com that does 250 hp on a stock D series, and up to 400 hp on a built D series. And that includes everything you need to install it, AND an intercooler.

TURBO! u get that nice sound when u shift, and horsepower, what more could u want? no question TURBO

ORIGINAL: XCM828

I noticed that that kit also doesnt come with any necessary piping, etc. It's just the supercharger. I found a turbo kit for $3000 on horsepowerfreaks.com that does 250 hp on a stock D series, and up to 400 hp on a built D series. And that includes everything you need to install it, AND an intercooler.

piping? its a positive displacment blower. It bolts directly to the block and the stock/aftermarket intake bolts directly to it, there is no piping needed. I think you're referring to a centrifugal type S/C which isnt used for the honda motors.

As for the turbo set up you found... 250 is going to require some stronger internals on a D series, and an intercooler is a must in any turbo setup, haha

ORIGIONAL: 02CivicEX
TURBO! u get that nice sound when u shift
Its called a blow off valve and can be done on a supercharger too.

ORIGIONAL: sacicons
speaking of which, how did that t25 feel on the gsr? did it give out in third? thats what i usually hear, but 12.8 sounds pretty strong for a t25. was it stock, or did you clip it or something?
Haha, I dont know if that motor still runs now-a-days. As for giving out in third... I never had that problem. It was far from stock, it was totally reliable, never had any engine problems, but I always had that feeling like it was going to give out any day... never did though. great little car.

i would think it would need piping for the IC.

the debate of turbocharged vs supercharged is a never ending one that has been discussed on every car site everywhere at one point or another. The simple answer is what are your goals? Turbochargers are far more efficient but often do not deliver power until 2500 -3000 rpm for a street turbo. Its easier to change boost settings on a turbo charger to meet your needs as well. What are the trade offs? well first of all you need to buy a turbo kit. This kit would pretty much negate the mods you have already done to your car, as it would replace the headers, intake, etc. Also, as stated above, they dont deliver power equally throughout the powerband. SO essentially if you are looking for horsepower number bragging rights, and a top end powerband, turbocharger is for you. If you wanted to autocross or road race and were looking for a more linear power band, supercharging is the way to go.

ORIGINAL: Grim
If you wanted to autocross or road race and were looking for a more linear power band, supercharging is the way to go.

On most (autox) courses, I usually stay in 2nd gear throughout most of the course. So, when I'm going around a curve at say 35-40 mph in 2nd gear, I'm going to be in fairly high rpm range, so I'm going to want a turbo for its high end power. That's just me though.

on a sohc, a SC might be good for auto-x, but i think a turbo would be best for me, and if you learn to drive it right, and control the spool with the throttle, then lag isnt an issue. and lag wont be much of an issue for me anyway. also, i plan on running my car at Thunderhill, so the top end power advantage of a turbo will be great. especially when i fill it up with 101 octane at the track pumps and give it another 3-4 psi for the day:D do that with your supercharger.

yea, i was curious too, does anybody make a turbo for civics(not EX or SI but LX sedan) b/c the only thing i can find is a Jackson Racing Supercharger rite now for 2700. i know Edelbrock came out with a turbo for the D16Y8 engine but that's a D16Y8 and i only have a D16Y7.

-B

It should still work (but why not do the head swap?)

the head swap is a definite kappa. no doubt. i will do a D16Y8 head swap. but if i do that then technically the turbo kit from edelbrock should work for me then i suppose? Also what's the general output of a turbo kit anyway? the supercharger puts out about 40% more HP and 30% more torque... on average that is.

-B

ORIGINAL: XCM828

On most (autox) courses, I usually stay in 2nd gear throughout most of the course. So, when I'm going around a curve at say 35-40 mph in 2nd gear, I'm going to be in fairly high rpm range, so I'm going to want a turbo for its high end power. That's just me though.

Yeah I guess I should have added that I am not exactly a veteran autocrosser, so I personally find myself lower in the rpm range more frequently than I would like. I suppose I should amend my statement to say - If you want a more linear power band and want your engine to pull like a larger displacement engine, the supercharger is the way to go.

To answer Silver civic's question. THere really is no general output for a turbo kit. Everything is a variable. Every piece of the turbo kit is a variable, every previous modification is a variable. Person A. could put a turbo kit on their stock engine and see a 40% gain in power with proper tuning, while person B. could put the same turbo kit on their built motor with lower compression pistons, sheet metal intake manifold, 3" exhaust, upgraded fuel pump and injectors, and see 140% gain in power with proper tuning. Lots of people are looking for a simple answer, but there is none. Everything depends on everything else, and every situation is different. You have to do the research on other people's setups and combinations of modifications. Even if greddy or turbonetics shows you a dyno graph of their turbo kit on the same motor you have, that doesnt mean you will yield the same results.

Yeah, that pretty much covers it. TC's are a lot more flexible than SC's, so you can't really give it a number. Adding a boost controller, getting BB cartridges, different manifold, IC, tons of other stuff can all just keep adding more and more power, assuming your engine is built to handle it.