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vtec help

  #1  
Old 10-07-2006, 10:21 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Default vtec help

hi there im new to hondas so i need some help i have a b18 in my car thats non vtec. so here the question is should i make it vtec or not with a head swap?
 
  #2  
Old 10-07-2006, 10:31 PM
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Default RE: vtec help

that's really up to you. if you want to do it then go for it. going ls/vtec will make your car faster, but if not built right you will also have a non running car
 
  #3  
Old 10-07-2006, 10:41 PM
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Default RE: vtec help

I wouldn't do a VTEC head...VTEC is not that ig of a deal you know. Up the compression, do some headwork and you'll make comparable power to the GSR with less parts to break.
 
  #4  
Old 10-07-2006, 10:43 PM
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Default RE: vtec help

can i take a b16 vtec head and but it on the b18 and would vtec be better for turbo
 
  #5  
Old 10-07-2006, 10:54 PM
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Default RE: vtec help

you can't just slap it on and call it a day. you have to do it right.
 
  #6  
Old 10-07-2006, 11:04 PM
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Default RE: vtec help

right how please explain
 
  #7  
Old 10-07-2006, 11:20 PM
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Default RE: vtec help

NECESSARY things to do/parts to buy when building a "reliable" lsvtec/b20vtec:

-LS/B20 (same) ARP rod bolts
-GSR/ITR (same) ARP head studs (NON-B17)
-New LS (90-01) B18a/b (for 81mm) or B20 (for 84mm) head gasket or aftermarket for your non-OEM bore
-New ACL LS/B20 (same)
-New Hastings piston rings (or OEM)
-New OEM D/Bseries (same) valve seals
-New OEM Dohc Vtec Bseries (B16/GSR/ITR) 22T water pump
-New OEM P72 GSR/ITR timing belt (not B17)
-New OEM P72 oil pump (94+ GSR, 96+ LS/B20/ITR/B16 - all the same)
-Magnetic oil drain plug (important for break in)
-New NGK V-power BKR6E spark plugs (stock LS pistons) OR NGK V-power BKR7E spark plugs for 11.0-12.0:1 compression, or NGK V-power R5671A-8 plugs for 12.0:1+ compression
-Adjustable Fuel Pressure regulator (necessary for stock ECU/injectors)

Note- "same" means that the listed parts use the same part #'s from HONDA.

Additionally:
-Shotpeen LS rods
-Hone big end of rods when using ARP rod bolts
-Hone cylinders
-Balance the entire rotating assembly

Do the above, and your motor will reward you with reliability.

Other things to consider for making power:
-A complete 2.5 inch exhaust (header, cat, exhaust piping, and muffler)
-Hondata/Passwordjdm intake manifold gasket
-Adjustable cam gears (even for stock cams, because lsvtec timing will ALWAYS be slightly off)

You want to make 200 whp with your lsvtec?
-OEM P30(SIR2 B16)/PCT(CTR)/P73(ITR) pistons or forged 11.5:1+ pistons (w/ forged aftermarket rods)
-Higher lift/longer duration cams (read below for cams)
-Stiffer valve springs (read below for valve springs)
-Tuning

Want to make more than 200WHP?
-Better intake manifold (ITR, AEBS, Skunk2, JG, Ported ITR)
-Reputable Port/Polish on head
-Better header (RMF narrow, SMSP 4-2-1 style, Rage/Hytech style, etc.)
-310cc injectors (at a minimum)
-Then go and tune the **** out of it!

You seriously thinking of making 230+ WHP?
-Sleeved to 84+mm
-12-13:1+ compression

These are just general equations, but hold up pretty well as you can see by reviewing other people's builds.

Now, let's get started...First, we can't get started without the Assembly lube, RTV, and 30W ND oil (to break in the rings.), and coolant. It will be good to have handy a 10, 12, 14, 17, and 19mm box wrenches as well as shallow and deep sockets in the same sizes. It would also be good if you could have those same sockets in both 3/8 drive and 1/2 drive (but it is not necessary). Pick up a 3/8 drive, and 1/2 drive 6 inch extension, as well as the equivalent sized socket wrenches. You will also need a ft/lbs torque wrench as well as a inch pounds torque wrench. Pick up a deep 5/8, 16mm or spark plug socket. Forgive me if i'm forgetting any tools, but these are the main ones. The only additional tools required for working on any other part of the car including installing the engine are 8mm's, 32mm's (axle nuts), and a couple flat heads and screwdrivers. You can get away with just those tools, any additional specialty tools is just preference, like ball joint seperators, etc. Last but not least, pick up a Helms or Chiltons for torque specs. At a bare MINIMUM, have a Haynes handy. You'll need one for a 99-00 civic, as well as a 94+ GSR/ITR.



The head. Let's first start off with your choices. There are B16 heads, ITR heads, and GSR heads. IMO, it is never worth buying an ITR head, if you plan on upgrading the springs/retainers/cams anyway. They are amazing heads from the factory, but B16/GSR heads can be had and built for far less. ITR/B16/92-93 GSR heads are built from the same exact casts (PR3), while 94+ GSR heads are built from a different cast (P72) which is why the intake manifold bolt pattern is different (from here on, 92-93 GSR heads will be referred to as B16 heads). ITR heads have a slight hand port job on the intake side from the factory. They also have stiffer dual valve springs, as well as slightly higher lift/longer duration cams and lighter valves. If you want to make more than 200whp with your lsvtec build, you are going to need better cams and springs/retainers anyway...so do you see why it's just not worth the $1000-1200 price tag on used ITR heads? The question you SHOULD ask is, should I get a GSR or B16 head? Tough question. Here's the deal...B16 heads share the same bolt pattern as ITR's for the intake manifold. They are easier to find aftermarket intake manifolds for than GSR heads, as well as being able to bolt on an ITR manifold. However, GSR heads have a distinct advantage over B16/ITR heads. Although having slightly smaller combustion chambers that raise compression is an advantage, it is the reason why it raises compression, that is the REAL advantage. You see, GSR heads employ small flat surfaces on the edges of the combustion chamber called "quench" pads. This does raise compression, but the real advantage is this design's ability to ward off detonation. So, if you decide you want a GSR head, it shouldn't be for the higher compression it will give you, but for the ability to run higher compression with it, safely. Beware though, if you plan on running a GSR head with CTR pistons, there is not much room for mistakes. The clearances are tight. I wouldn't personally run that combination w/ stock cast pistons anyway. So keep that in mind. Now that you can see the advantages of both heads, it's really a toss-up. It's your decision, go with the one that fits your needs.

Now, if you have the money, and you want to build a powerful setup, I highly recommend sending your head out to one of the proven head porting shops out there like RLZ, portflow, DonF @ DFE, Headgames, Import Builders, or Alaniz. I would also go ahead and at the very minimum pick up new OEM valve seals, if not aftermarket. These are equivalent to piston rings for the head, as they seal oil out of the combustion chamber. Don't worry though, Honda valve seals are still fine. Valve springs and retainers are also a mandatory upgrade if you ever plan on making power passed 8k with your lsvtec w/ upgraded cams. Some great companies are Rocket Motorsports, supertech, omni, RLZ, Import Builders, JG, etc. I went ahead and milled the head a little just to freshen the surface. It is by no means necessary. But, keep in mind that if you do it, your cam timing may be slightly affected, as well as your piston to valve clearance and compression ratio. Be careful how much you take off. Here are pics of my '00 B16 head fresh from the machine shop:













vtec head preparation. First, you must remove the allen plug on the intake manifold passenger side of the head. Heating it up with a torch may ease in the removal of this plug, although I've never had to use heat, just muscle. Next, you must tap the head and install the 1/8 NPT pipe fitting included in your lsvtec kit you either purchased or assembled. Make sure to either teflon tape/paste it or use threadlocker, which ever you prefer. I use teflon tape myself. For the dowel pin holes, I used the two corner exhaust side head bolt holes. They fit perfect with the golden eagle lsvtec dowel pins.

[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_i
 
  #8  
Old 10-08-2006, 02:08 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8
Default RE: vtec help

cool, thanks man nice info
 
  #9  
Old 10-08-2006, 03:49 PM
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 42
Default RE: vtec help

I think this calls for a sticky >_>
 
  #10  
Old 06-11-2007, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: vtec help

Holy sh*t. that was the greatest post i ever read. I will be printing this out and reading it to my kids before bed!!!!! thanks lol
 

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