'94 Civic Hatch Timing
#1
03-10-2014, 07:21 AM
'94 Civic Hatch Timing
Hello, I am new to the forum and I am here because I have a problem I am having trouble figuring out.
The car: 1994 Honda Civic Hatchback
The car is bone stock. 248,000 miles. Last timing belt was about a year ago and has ran fine ever since. Car runs fine but needs base timing set.
A couple weeks ago I was driving home from work and the car started running poorly. Surging, low power, rich. Got code 43.
I changed out the cap, rotor, and plugs (because it had been a while and the contacts in the cap looked bad) but it didn't help. I checked the fuel pressure and it is good. I probed the O2 and it was reading maxed out rich, I could get it to fluctuate by revving it up but it would go back to full rich. I followed all the troubleshooting steps in the Haynes manuals and everything checked out. I then checked continuity from the O2 to the ECU to make sure the signal was getting back there and it was good.
I decided to take a shot and replace the O2.....didn't fix it. I took the CAT off and punched it out still didn't fix it. I'm thinking the ECU is bad but the only extra one I have is the original which failed on me about 5 years ago and wont start the car. So I stopped by a little import shop in town and dropped the car off. He took the P06 ECU out and put in a P05 and it went right to a smooth idle. He also took the distributor and turned it to put the tabs in the middle (no timing light). Well the problems of the car running rich were solved but now there was no power and I figure its because he turned the distributor back.
I could see where it was set before so I moved it back. Seemed to be a lot better but I still have a small hesitation while accelerating at low RPMs. Turns out it was the spark plug wires.
I decided to set the timing to the 16 degrees (red mark) since he had turned it with out checking it and here is my issue.
I install a jumper in the service connector and start the car. Let it warm up a bit and the red timing mark is off to the right (advanced) by about 45 degrees.....If I remove the jumper its in the same place. If I move the distributor the mark moves just as it should. I can not figure out how to get the mark to the top of the balancer so I can set it with the mark.
Is there any chance the balancer is not in the right location? If I remember right there is a key way that would prevent it from being installed incorrectly.
Has anyone seen this problem before and what do I do about it?
Sorry for the long write up but wanted to show how I got to where I am and hopefully answer any preliminary questions. The car is running fine but I would like to get the base timing set correctly. Thanks for the help.
The car: 1994 Honda Civic Hatchback
The car is bone stock. 248,000 miles. Last timing belt was about a year ago and has ran fine ever since. Car runs fine but needs base timing set.
A couple weeks ago I was driving home from work and the car started running poorly. Surging, low power, rich. Got code 43.
I changed out the cap, rotor, and plugs (because it had been a while and the contacts in the cap looked bad) but it didn't help. I checked the fuel pressure and it is good. I probed the O2 and it was reading maxed out rich, I could get it to fluctuate by revving it up but it would go back to full rich. I followed all the troubleshooting steps in the Haynes manuals and everything checked out. I then checked continuity from the O2 to the ECU to make sure the signal was getting back there and it was good.
I decided to take a shot and replace the O2.....didn't fix it. I took the CAT off and punched it out still didn't fix it. I'm thinking the ECU is bad but the only extra one I have is the original which failed on me about 5 years ago and wont start the car. So I stopped by a little import shop in town and dropped the car off. He took the P06 ECU out and put in a P05 and it went right to a smooth idle. He also took the distributor and turned it to put the tabs in the middle (no timing light). Well the problems of the car running rich were solved but now there was no power and I figure its because he turned the distributor back.
I could see where it was set before so I moved it back. Seemed to be a lot better but I still have a small hesitation while accelerating at low RPMs. Turns out it was the spark plug wires.
I decided to set the timing to the 16 degrees (red mark) since he had turned it with out checking it and here is my issue.
I install a jumper in the service connector and start the car. Let it warm up a bit and the red timing mark is off to the right (advanced) by about 45 degrees.....If I remove the jumper its in the same place. If I move the distributor the mark moves just as it should. I can not figure out how to get the mark to the top of the balancer so I can set it with the mark.
Is there any chance the balancer is not in the right location? If I remember right there is a key way that would prevent it from being installed incorrectly.
Has anyone seen this problem before and what do I do about it?
Sorry for the long write up but wanted to show how I got to where I am and hopefully answer any preliminary questions. The car is running fine but I would like to get the base timing set correctly. Thanks for the help.
#2
03-10-2014, 01:15 PM
Remove spark plug #1 and use a suitable tool to probe in the cylinder, it will touch the top of the piston. Then rotate the crank by hand until the piston is all the way up and confirm that the zero degree mark (single notch) on the balancer is under the pointer.
The CEL should light up steady when you run the engine with the jumper in. This confirms that the ECU is in test mode so it leaves the timing at base.
If you have to turn the distributor much off of the center to get proper spark timing, the timing belt is likely out of time.
The CEL should light up steady when you run the engine with the jumper in. This confirms that the ECU is in test mode so it leaves the timing at base.
If you have to turn the distributor much off of the center to get proper spark timing, the timing belt is likely out of time.
Last edited by mk378; 03-10-2014 at 01:17 PM.
#3
03-13-2014, 03:50 AM
Remove spark plug #1 and use a suitable tool to probe in the cylinder, it will touch the top of the piston. Then rotate the crank by hand until the piston is all the way up and confirm that the zero degree mark (single notch) on the balancer is under the pointer.
The CEL should light up steady when you run the engine with the jumper in. This confirms that the ECU is in test mode so it leaves the timing at base.
If you have to turn the distributor much off of the center to get proper spark timing, the timing belt is likely out of time.
The CEL should light up steady when you run the engine with the jumper in. This confirms that the ECU is in test mode so it leaves the timing at base.
If you have to turn the distributor much off of the center to get proper spark timing, the timing belt is likely out of time.
The CEL does glow solid when the jumper is in so all of that is working. It appears that the balancer is not in the right position. If the timing belt was not right the car would not run right. I have replaced the timing belt at least three times on this car and have been successful each time.
I think we figured out the issue of the lower than normal power and gas mileage and that is the P05 ECU that was put in the car. This ECU is for the 8 valve motor (CX) and mine if a 16 valve motor (DX). The P05 has much leaner fuel tables in it which are too lean for my car. I have a P06-A02 that should be delivered today to correct that issue. Then I will have a P05 for sale.
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