Before I start, I should mention that while I know a bit about cars, and am fairly mechanically minded and never afraid to get my hands dirty, I also would say I'm still definitely in the novice category when it comes to more technical repairs, so please correct me if I mention any blunders or use incorrect terminology.

So I pulled the valve cover and the timing belt cover (at least the upper part) off today. I know that you can't remove the timing belt from there, but I figured I could at least see how it looked. It didn't look brand new by any means, but there weren't any visible cracks or major deterioration. It seemed like it was also not all that tight. The belt would give about an inch when I pushed on the part between pulleys.

Next I wanted to rotate the crankshaft so that I could check that the timing belt was properly aligned. I was under the impression that I needed to rotate the center bolt on the pulley that I exposed by removing the top timing belt cover. But when I did that it wouldn't budge, until eventually it just loosened the bolt (which I retightened). Now I'm wondering if I misunderstood and it's actually the lower pulley that I need to rotate. If so, I guess that can't be done without removing the wheel, huh? If that's the case, I'll probably need to wait until a friend can help me, as I'm starting to feel a bit in over my head (plus I don't own a jack other than the one to change a flat). But maybe it's not that hard? Or maybe I should have tried something else?

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

it is the lower (crankshaft) pulley that you rotate counterclockwise to get the timing marks aligned. However, one should never be under a car with it on the jack that is used for changing a tire. toooooo dangerous.
i use solid wood ramps that i home made out of 3 2x6s. 2 total staked on top of each other. there are stands made for that, but i never did like them. and i got steel ramp that a friend left me - put one of them where a jack would normally be, with 2 by 4 in the trough to make a level surface.
you can leave the tire on - and probably better because if it would fall, will be stopped by the tire. think there is cover that needs to come off, though.

 

Thanks again for the help, fglaustin. I definitely won't be getting under a car just held up by the tire-change jack. Hell, I barely feel safe standing next to that thing. I always think it could kick out anytime. I'm trying to get ahold of a friend who has one of the big hand-pump hydraulic (I think ) car jacks. I could probably make something as you have, but the problem would be getting it up onto the ramps since it won't drive. I helped a neighbor push his car out onto the street yesterday so we could try to push-start it (seems non-starting is going around here), and just getting it over the tiny bump onto the street was terrible.

Anyway, I'll report back once I'm able to get that jack and take a look at the entire timing belt. I really don't have to take the tire off, huh? Do they just recommend that because it's easier to work behind it if it's not there?

Thanks again.

 

Well, these things are never simple, huh? My local mechanic friend came over yesterday, and we took the valve cover and upper timing belt cover off. He looked at the belt, and we cranked the engine so he could see it rotate fully, and it was his opinion that the belt had not slipped and was not the problem. I'm not quite sure how he came to that decision, as we didn't check any of the alignment marks, but it could have partially been due to the fact that he was in a hurry and didn't want to take off the wheel etc. to get at the crankshaft.

So, he decided to check again for a spark. We pulled the wires, and pushed in a screwdriver first and then later a lawnmower spark plug (that was long enough to get to the contact), and cranked the engine. No spark [:@] . So perhaps I misdiagnosed this thing in the first place. My friend is now thinking it's somewhere in the distributor. We pulled the cap and saw what appears to be a very fine crack right next to one of the terminals (that's the right word, right? The piece of metal sticking through the caps that goes off to the wires, is what I'm referring to), along with some light but still noticeable corrosion on the terminals.

So, my friend is now suggesting replacing the distributor cap and rotor first, and then if that doesn't work getting a new distributor (possibly from a yard).

So, I'm wondering a few things (thanks to your help, fglaustin and a few people in other threads, I now know some better questions to ask!)

First off, have we necessarily eliminated the potential of the timing being off? I guess there should still be a spark even if things are misaligned ... the timing just makes sure it sparks at the right time to compress the cylinder, right? Or no?

Next, is the distributor cap replacement a good place to start with this? Or should I try to test differently? Is there a better way to test for a spark even?

Finally, if I do get the point of trying a new distributor cap and rotor, or replacing the whole distributor, could I use those parts from my '94 Civic just to test it that's the problem (ie, before dropping a bunch of cash on new parts)? It didn't look that hard to change the rotor and cap ... should I try swapping those out, or would it be too tough to put back into my '94 Civic (I rely on that one for transportation ... the '97 [the one that's broken] I'm trying to sell, so I really don't want to mess up the '94)? What about the whole distributor? Is it pretty tough to get that in and out? What about resetting the timing when I put it in either car?

Oh, and one other question ... while we were trying to diagnose the car, there were several points where he cranked the engine for what, to me, seemed like way too long ... probably 30-40 seconds. He seemed to be hoping that if it cranked long enough something would finally catch. Isn't that really bad on the starting mechanisms? Or not that big a deal?

Thanks, as always, for the excellent help. I really, really appreciate it.

 

have not ruled out timing - but best to check spark first.
need to ground the lawnmower spark plug of course.
if no spark, then go to the auto zone site and see if those 2 years match as far a dist cap and rotor. if so, then try them. may be a simple solution

 

Great idea ... I checked Autozone (should've thought to do that myself) and it looks like the distributor cap and rotor are the same on the '97 and the '94, but not on the distributor itself. I'll try swapping in my 94's rotor and cap first.

If the rotor is not timed/aligned properly, will it still send out sparks? Basically what I mean is, if the timing belt is off, or if the rotor is not installed in the correct position, will I still be able to test that sparks are making it to the wires/spark plugs at least? And then, if I can get that working, I can worry about the timing and positioning?

Many thanks for the help.

 

I decided to try a few checks on the ignition coil as described in the Haynes repair manual today before I head into town and get a new cap and rotor, and I'm wondering now if there's a problem in the coil.

When I checked the resistance between the primary terminals I came up with 0 Ohms. My meter really only reads on a thousands scale, so I'm guessing it's in line with the recommended resistance of 0.6 - 0.8 ohms, as listed in the Haynes manual (I have a non-Hitachi distributor).

However, when I checked the secondary winding terminal I came up with 7.8 K-ohms, whereas the specs for that one are 12.8 to 19.2 K-ohms.

Could that be the problem? Might the reduced resistance mean that there's a short of some sort in the coil? It is cold out today -- 46 degrees -- but I would think that colder weather would make for more resistance, right?

Any help would be greatly appreciated ... I'd sure hate to get a new coil to find out that's not the problem, as they're a bit pricey and I'm a bit poor (grin).

Thanks

 

i'm suprised no one has mentioned something really obvious, or maybe i just skimmed too fast, but could it be your starter?

as starters go bad, they just get slower and slower in terms of how fast/hard they crank... so eventually they just don't crank hard enough to get your engine turning. The easy way to check this, is to try starting it by doing the following:
1. put your keys in and in the on position
2. put it in first gear and clutch
3. have some friends either push you by hand, or with a car, or go down a hill until you're going like 7-10 miles an hour, and drop the clutch in 1st gear with the keys in the on position.

if it starts, then your starter is dead and you need a new one, rebuilt ones are cheap especially sinc eyou're selling it, and then you can say "yeah and i just replaced the starter"

 

i guess the easiest question to ask, when you try to start your car, does your engine crankfast but just not start or is it a slow kind of churn noise... you know?

 

Thanks for the help, bp. Unfortunately, I don't think it's the starter in this case (although I wish it was ... or anything I could diagnose for certain, just so I can get the car running again!). The cranking is the same speed it's always been, and the engine crankshaft is definitely turning. The problem seems to be that I'm not getting any sparks from the wires. That's why my friend is guessing it's a distributor problem somewhere.

Going off my earlier numbers, does anyone know if that lower resistance on the ignition coil's secondary winding terminal (7.8 K-ohms when the spec is 12.8-19.2 K-ohms) is enough to indicate that the coil might be bad? Or, despite it being outside the range, is that just indicative of other factors (like cold weather, perhaps) and not enough to indicate there's a problem?