hey, my civic just wouldn't start for me the other day, and I'm pretty sure i've diagnosed the problem (thanks in part to a couple posts on this forum(thanks)) but i've got some questions.
My car is a 87 5 door RT4wd, and fairly awesome. the fuel system uses a carburetor, which i believe honda phased out in favor of fuel injection the year after my car was made. Now, My car displays the perfect symptoms of a failed fuel pump relay. but I'm not 100% sure if its the problem, because everyone else who has had this problem has had a fuel injection system.
what happens: turn key to 'on' i hear fuel pump
turn key to 'start' the car turns over, catches, revs like normal.
let key go and it goes back to 'run' car dies, and after it's dead, i can no longer hear the fuel pump
after car dies, other electronics (like stereo) are still on and functioning normally.

sounds like main relay crap out to me. So i phoned honda dealership, they discontinued my part, phoned NAPA and lordco, no 87 relays. so now im doubting myself: you guys think the main relay is the problem??? where can i pick one up??? will a relay from an 88 (probably fuel injected) civic work?? (pictured) please assist. I really want to get this thing going again, and im pissed that a little discontinued part like a relay might stop me.

 

I doubt it is the relay. When you release the key and the car dies, do the oil and charge lights on the dash come on (as should normally happen with the key on but the engine not running)? If not, the ignition system has completely powered down. This is probably the key switch itself being defective.

Also a carburetor car will continue to run for a time after the fuel pump stops, because a small amount of fuel is stored in the carburetor. If it quits instantly, the ignition has been turned off.

There is another circuit through the key switch for the stereo, heater blower, and several other optional parts. The stereo, blower, etc. is off while cranking to reduce draw on the battery. The ignition is on in (II) or (III), it is a different circuit.

 

I agree with mk. Do the continuity tests shown in the diagram to verify.

 

hmm you are right, the oil and charge lights go off once the car dies. will run continuity test and get back.

 

alright, ****, my multimeter is currently out of batteries, and I have no 9 volts handy. Im going to edmonton tonight, so when i get back ill see whats up. In the mean time, i took the cover off the steering column and discovered electrical tape. might be the culprit, but it looks a pretty decent solder job. well see when I get back.


alright, so im a little ADD so i did some continuity tests, and this is more what my car looks like:

which doesnt make a whole lot of sense, since wouldnt it be starting ALL the time? however, im fairly certain the IG1 is the culprit, as nothing is continious with the bottom middle pin. ever. what should I do, I don't have much experience with car electrical systems, but I've got tons with computer electronics. Can i fix? resolder? or do I have to buy a new whole starting assembly?

 

You can try "hotwiring" it. Plug the plug back in. Also take a piece of wire and cram it into the back side of the socket in order to connect B (white) to IG1 (black/white) all the time. The oil and charge lights should come on when you do that. Now turn the key to start and the engine should start, and keep running when you let go of the key. If it does that the switch is definitely bad. (To stop it, pull out your jumper wire and turn key to off.)

 

I can't decipher your markings on the diagram. What were the results?

Check Majestic Honda for a replacement electrical component for the ignition switch (see diagram):

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/

 

RonJ, the x is meant to point out that IG1 is discontinious with everything, while everything else is as it should be, then I added ST. Its continious with BAT and ACC all the time for some wierd reason. then at the bottom, im indicating that it is the bottom middle IG1 pin as opposed to the bottom right IG1pin.
ill give that a shot when I get back mk378.

 

The continuity tests seem to have generated false results:

1) As you mentioned, based on your results, the starter should crank the engine in positions I, II, and III, despite the fact that you only mention the engine cranking in position III.

2) The engine should crank but not start in position III because there is no continuity with IG1 (ignition system) in this position. This contrasts with your mention that the engine fires in position III.

Do the wires attached to the ignition switch connector match with those shown in the diagram? If so, you may want to repeat the tests.

Could you also clarify the test results with IG1-middle versus IG1-right. Shouldn't they yield identical results in the continuity tests?

 

yea you would think so, and this confused the ***** off me. I checked like 100x, but this is apparently what is happening. it does, however, only crank on III and 3 days ago it cranked on III and ran on II. if you notice though, there are some soldered wires, someone spliced wires into ST and the bottom right IG1. I'm going to try to go over and "hotwire" it when I get back. If no deal, I'm just going to get ahold of the previous owner and see if he remembers what exactly he did.
one question though: whats the difference between IG1 and 2 and why are there 2 IG1s?