trying to find why im burning oil?
#1
05-16-2006, 12:33 PM
trying to find why im burning oil?
Hey guys, My 98 civic ex burns tons of oil like 1 QT in like 200 miles or more. How can i tell if its the rings or valve guide seals or what? please help thanks.
#2
05-16-2006, 01:57 PM
RE: trying to find why im burning oil?
leak down test will be the best way to see. Compression test if you are short on time.
Does the car put out blue smoke???(rings)
Park it with some card board under it overnight...check for obvious drip marksin the morning and see where the leak originates.
Does the car put out blue smoke???(rings)
Park it with some card board under it overnight...check for obvious drip marksin the morning and see where the leak originates.
#3
05-16-2006, 07:03 PM
RE: trying to find why im burning oil?
if you have the time and the money you could take the head off and check to see if you have a valve seating problem then you would have to replace the head gasket, then like dogmeat said do a compression test
#4
05-17-2006, 09:37 AM
RE: trying to find why im burning oil?
It does smoke blue when i get on it hard or drive just after i start it but it does suit out the muffler prety heavely if i let it sit idle for a while by the way it has no cat. There is also no leaks. I was going to pull the head off and just replace the rings but i want to know if its the valves or rings are shot first so i know where to go wiht it so i can have as little down time as i can. id like to start on it a friday night and finnish back to gather running on saterday wiht new timing belt to. But i really want to do it cheep because money is tight i figured i could do it for about $150. What do you think.
This might be a stupid ? but how do you do a leak down test exactly.
This might be a stupid ? but how do you do a leak down test exactly.
#5
05-17-2006, 02:41 PM
RE: trying to find why im burning oil?
ORIGINAL: Omen68
Brief description of leakdown and compression tests:
A compression test measures the max pressure a cylinder will produce. A well sealed cylinder produces better compression than one that isn't. It's quick and easy but it doesn't tell you as much.
A leakdown will check not only how well the cylinder is sealed, but you have the ability to check the seal as the piston moves up/down the cylinder. It also reports the % of leakage. To understand the test you have to understand the tester. You have two gauges, a pressure regulator, a way of connecting the tester to a compressed air source and a fitting to connect to the spark plug ports. The first gauge measures how much air the regulator is passing downstream to the cylinder. The second gauge measures how much pressure the downstream side is holding. In short you position the piston such that both valves are closed, supply a source of compressed air to the tester and adjust the regulator so that it is passing X amount of air downstream. X is up to you, but for the sake of making the math easy most people set it to 100 lbs. Next read the second gauge (lets call this Y) and do the math. Y / X = the percentage that the cylinder is holding. If X = 100 and Y = 80, then that cylinder is retaining 80% of the pressure supplied to it with the piston in that particular position. Or it's leaking 20% if you want to look at it that way. Now slowly rotate the crank by hand and watch the second gauge. If it remains at that same value then the cylinder walls are not the culprit. That leaves heads, head gaskets and rings. Any drops in pressure during the piston travel indicates an imperfection in the cylinder wall. Turn the pressure down to zero with the regulator and remove from the spark plug hole, squirt a shot of oil into the spark plug hole and reconnect the tester. Turn the pressure back up to what you had it set to before and read the second gauge. The oil will help seal the rings so you can assume the remaining leakage is head/head gasket related. In the example above, if the new reading is 85 then you can assume that the rings are leaking 5% and that the rest is due to heads or head gaskets.
Brief description of leakdown and compression tests:
A compression test measures the max pressure a cylinder will produce. A well sealed cylinder produces better compression than one that isn't. It's quick and easy but it doesn't tell you as much.
A leakdown will check not only how well the cylinder is sealed, but you have the ability to check the seal as the piston moves up/down the cylinder. It also reports the % of leakage. To understand the test you have to understand the tester. You have two gauges, a pressure regulator, a way of connecting the tester to a compressed air source and a fitting to connect to the spark plug ports. The first gauge measures how much air the regulator is passing downstream to the cylinder. The second gauge measures how much pressure the downstream side is holding. In short you position the piston such that both valves are closed, supply a source of compressed air to the tester and adjust the regulator so that it is passing X amount of air downstream. X is up to you, but for the sake of making the math easy most people set it to 100 lbs. Next read the second gauge (lets call this Y) and do the math. Y / X = the percentage that the cylinder is holding. If X = 100 and Y = 80, then that cylinder is retaining 80% of the pressure supplied to it with the piston in that particular position. Or it's leaking 20% if you want to look at it that way. Now slowly rotate the crank by hand and watch the second gauge. If it remains at that same value then the cylinder walls are not the culprit. That leaves heads, head gaskets and rings. Any drops in pressure during the piston travel indicates an imperfection in the cylinder wall. Turn the pressure down to zero with the regulator and remove from the spark plug hole, squirt a shot of oil into the spark plug hole and reconnect the tester. Turn the pressure back up to what you had it set to before and read the second gauge. The oil will help seal the rings so you can assume the remaining leakage is head/head gasket related. In the example above, if the new reading is 85 then you can assume that the rings are leaking 5% and that the rest is due to heads or head gaskets.
#6
05-18-2006, 09:15 AM
RE: trying to find why im burning oil?
K sounds good how do I go about getting this done take it to a shop or can i buy the stuff to do it for a reasonable cost. Thanks for the help.
#7
05-18-2006, 10:44 AM
RE: trying to find why im burning oil?
uhm...compression tester is cheap enough to own one. Maybe a friend has one or can borrow from his dad etc....
Leak down tester...make your own or see if one of your buddies has access to one.
Leak down tester...make your own or see if one of your buddies has access to one.
#9
05-18-2006, 12:28 PM
RE: trying to find why im burning oil?
I can just buy a compression tester. I would like to just get one but I would really like to leak down test just so i have the other info. I will try autozone thanks Talon585. I do have a buddy that i could get one from but hes on my **** list right now.
#10
05-19-2006, 01:01 AM
RE: trying to find why im burning oil?
For a little four cylinder, that's quite a bit of oil consumption. But, all may not be lost. If your car is lacking serious power, then your compression rings may be worn and oil has no problem getting past them. I can assure you there is no way worn valve guides on your Civic are leaking 1qt of oil into the combustion chambers over 200 miles unless you took out the stem seals completely out and drilled out the guides. I don't work for, but I do a great deal of work with friends of mine who own an awesome machine shop and have seen cars in the same shape as yours many many times. Before I explain the most likely cause, definitely do a compression and/or leakdown test just in case there is a major issue, if nothing else to give you a baseline for tests in the future.
In my opinion, though, the real culprit is your OIL RINGS. Today's standard piston has two compression rings and 1 oil ring assembly. The oil ring is basically a baffle which retains and distributes just the right amount of oil on the cylinder walls (the oil is not pressurized, it is splash from the crankshaft and wrist pin, among other places). They are never perfect, and some does get past it and into the combustion chambers, but very little. In fact, I have a 98 Civic as well with 93000 miles and it doesn't burn a drop. If this oil ring wears out, too much will get past the ring and it will leave too much oil on the cylinder walls. The engine will actually suck the oil past the compression rings and burn the hell out of it. Yet, your compression may still be excellent because the compression rings are still satisfactory. Almost all foreign imports are notorious for having this problem...Hondas, Toyotas, Suburus, etc. I'm not saying this happens to everyone of them, but it is most common in the cars that have had a marginal maintenance history, i.e. oil changes. But sometimes even that isn't enough. People come into our shop all the time with heavy oil consumption in these little imports, and we let them know their car is probably ok, they just need a new set of oil rings. It's also a great way to find a sweet deal on a car like this because most think the engine has to go. Now for us in the shop, it's a piece of cake to pop out the pistons and replace the oil rings. Reason being, we don't have to do any machining. But for someone who doesn't have access to stuff like this, it can be a little costly. If your compression is good, my suggestion is either try and find a low mileage motor imported from Japan and swap it, or if you are able to pull the motor yourself, take it out and bring it to a machine shop and have them do the work. Sorry for being a little long winded, but I hope this can at least steer you in the right direction
In my opinion, though, the real culprit is your OIL RINGS. Today's standard piston has two compression rings and 1 oil ring assembly. The oil ring is basically a baffle which retains and distributes just the right amount of oil on the cylinder walls (the oil is not pressurized, it is splash from the crankshaft and wrist pin, among other places). They are never perfect, and some does get past it and into the combustion chambers, but very little. In fact, I have a 98 Civic as well with 93000 miles and it doesn't burn a drop. If this oil ring wears out, too much will get past the ring and it will leave too much oil on the cylinder walls. The engine will actually suck the oil past the compression rings and burn the hell out of it. Yet, your compression may still be excellent because the compression rings are still satisfactory. Almost all foreign imports are notorious for having this problem...Hondas, Toyotas, Suburus, etc. I'm not saying this happens to everyone of them, but it is most common in the cars that have had a marginal maintenance history, i.e. oil changes. But sometimes even that isn't enough. People come into our shop all the time with heavy oil consumption in these little imports, and we let them know their car is probably ok, they just need a new set of oil rings. It's also a great way to find a sweet deal on a car like this because most think the engine has to go. Now for us in the shop, it's a piece of cake to pop out the pistons and replace the oil rings. Reason being, we don't have to do any machining. But for someone who doesn't have access to stuff like this, it can be a little costly. If your compression is good, my suggestion is either try and find a low mileage motor imported from Japan and swap it, or if you are able to pull the motor yourself, take it out and bring it to a machine shop and have them do the work. Sorry for being a little long winded, but I hope this can at least steer you in the right direction