do i need a camber kit???
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,802
RE: do i need a camber kit???
ORIGINAL: mxs
This isn't true and I don't know why nobody ever believes me when I say this. TOE wrecks your tires, not camber; toe can be adjusted on our cars from the factory.
ORIGINAL: conceptualpolymer
Well, I guess it's only a necessity if you want your tires to wear evenly.
Well, I guess it's only a necessity if you want your tires to wear evenly.
my front tires have a little bit of camber wear and same with my rear. the toe was off on the RR wheel and guess what happened, that tire got worn sooo much worse than all my other tires. not because of camber, because of toe. i dunno how much i've lowered my car from stock since it was on lowering springs before i got my coilovers but i would imagine im atleast 2", if not close to 2.5" for the front. i dont have a front camber kit andi have a little less negative camber in the rearbecause i usedwashers.
HCF Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,994
From: Rochester, NY
RE: do i need a camber kit???
ORIGINAL: conceptualpolymer
excessive wear on the insides of the tires
excessive wear on the insides of the tires
ORIGINAL: civicexracer
the toe was off on the RR wheel and guess what happened, that tire got worn sooo much worse than all my other tires. not because of camber, because of toe.
the toe was off on the RR wheel and guess what happened, that tire got worn sooo much worse than all my other tires. not because of camber, because of toe.
Here is more information on the subject: http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
For minimum tire wear and power loss, the wheels on a given axle of a car should point directly ahead when the car is running in a straight line. Excessive toe-in or toe-out causes the tires to scrub, since they are always turned relative to the direction of travel. Too much toe-in causes accelerated wear at the outboard edges of the tires, while too much toe-out causes wear at the inboard edges.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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RE: do i need a camber kit???
another lowering/alignment myth debunked.....
http://e30m3performance.com/myths/We..._transfer2.htm
In essence.....
http://e30m3performance.com/myths/We..._transfer2.htm
In essence.....
There are benefits to lowering your car - reduced weight transfer and less "jacking". And there are also disadvantages - increased roll couple, a negative effect on camber curves and possibly increased bump-steer. Thus, lowering your car involves a trade off. Lower is often better, but too low is not good.
HCF Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,994
From: Rochester, NY
RE: do i need a camber kit???
That's not a "myth" -- that's talking about an entirely different suspension system! We are discussing double-wishbone suspension, that link you posted "applies to any car which employs Mac Pherson Strut suspension"
June 2010 ROTM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,284
From: Milwaukee, WI
RE: do i need a camber kit???
Well, I never knew that. So, after reading all the links, it seems that camber does wear the tires SLOWLY but it's nothing compared to the toe being off.
Just from experience with my car, I'm putting on a front camber kit. I have a lifetime alignment at Tires Plus and I get it aligned after every tire change (winter tires and summer tires) and after every track event. I ask for the print-out every time, so I know they are fist **cking me. I do have some wear and I'm pretty sure it's to due to my toe being off because the alignment guys are normally pissed when they see me walk in the door. They are always complaning that my car is in spec when I drive it in, so I shouldn't even bother.
Just from experience with my car, I'm putting on a front camber kit. I have a lifetime alignment at Tires Plus and I get it aligned after every tire change (winter tires and summer tires) and after every track event. I ask for the print-out every time, so I know they are fist **cking me. I do have some wear and I'm pretty sure it's to due to my toe being off because the alignment guys are normally pissed when they see me walk in the door. They are always complaning that my car is in spec when I drive it in, so I shouldn't even bother.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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RE: do i need a camber kit???
ORIGINAL: mxs
That's not a "myth" -- that's talking about an entirely different suspension system! We are discussing double-wishbone suspension, that link you posted "applies to any car which employs Mac Pherson Strut suspension"
That's not a "myth" -- that's talking about an entirely different suspension system! We are discussing double-wishbone suspension, that link you posted "applies to any car which employs Mac Pherson Strut suspension"
HCF Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,994
From: Rochester, NY
RE: do i need a camber kit???
ORIGINAL: conceptualpolymer
Most 2003+ Civics have McPherson struts as part of their front suspension.
Most 2003+ Civics have McPherson struts as part of their front suspension.
The original poster has a 98 though, so your link is still not relevant
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Joined: Sep 2005
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RE: do i need a camber kit???
I know that I see many lowered Civics with classic camber offset - the top of each tire is tilted toward the center of the car. That's not a toe problem in my book. Maybe it's a combination of toe and camber being out of spec, but I will know more when I have my car aligned in a couple of weeks. I'll ask the owner, who's been aligning cars since 1964, and then get back to you guys.
Dave
Dave
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,994
From: Rochester, NY
RE: do i need a camber kit???
I'm not sure that you read the links I posted on the first page. The heeltoe link basically says that yes, you get negative camber (I am not denying this!), but the negative camber is not a "problem" that needs to be "fixed." This is based on the design of the suspension and on actual real-world experience. AJ and I aren't just making this stuff up.