lowering a car PROPERLY is beneficial
#1
05-30-2010, 12:08 PM
lowering a car PROPERLY is beneficial
i was just reading another thread that was closed and i was surprised by numerous comments that said that lowering a car is for looks only and have no function at all. now, i also did read that a lot of people do understand that a lower center of gravity helps but that's not the biggest benefit.
if you properly lower a car, for racing purposes, then you should probably go with a high spring rate. the benefit of a high spring rate like 10kg/mm or higher is that car has a lot less body roll around a corner. on top of that, since the spring is just that much stiffer, the distance the wheel travels up and down when hitting a bump or such is much smaller and thus the car may be lowered and have a lowered center of gravity and still not risk the wheel going up into the wheel well and hitting the top of the car or something like that.
this is why i'm not a fan of lowering springs. it lowers a car 1-2 inches but usually the spring rate goes from 3kg/mm front and 2kg/mm rear to like 4kg/mm front and 3kg/mm rear. imo, there is no benefit in handling when it comes to lowering springs simply because the change in spring rate was not great enough to justify the change in lowering the car.
now, i frequently go to the local track high plains raceway in colorado and i have experience with this which is why i use such high spring rates, but i will agree that for many of you who have no interest in better handling frankly don't give a **** whether the car handles better or not so feel free to get lowering springs.
but i just swapped a set of ksport coils into a 96 hatch with custom rates of 14 front and 12 rear and i guarantee you it handles many times better than stock. i also put a set of ksport with custom rates of 16 front and rear into my brother's s2000 which already handles wonderful stock but going up from the stock rates of 5f and 4r i believe it was it is much more stable around the corners.
just felt like sharing and ranting......
if you properly lower a car, for racing purposes, then you should probably go with a high spring rate. the benefit of a high spring rate like 10kg/mm or higher is that car has a lot less body roll around a corner. on top of that, since the spring is just that much stiffer, the distance the wheel travels up and down when hitting a bump or such is much smaller and thus the car may be lowered and have a lowered center of gravity and still not risk the wheel going up into the wheel well and hitting the top of the car or something like that.
this is why i'm not a fan of lowering springs. it lowers a car 1-2 inches but usually the spring rate goes from 3kg/mm front and 2kg/mm rear to like 4kg/mm front and 3kg/mm rear. imo, there is no benefit in handling when it comes to lowering springs simply because the change in spring rate was not great enough to justify the change in lowering the car.
now, i frequently go to the local track high plains raceway in colorado and i have experience with this which is why i use such high spring rates, but i will agree that for many of you who have no interest in better handling frankly don't give a **** whether the car handles better or not so feel free to get lowering springs.
but i just swapped a set of ksport coils into a 96 hatch with custom rates of 14 front and 12 rear and i guarantee you it handles many times better than stock. i also put a set of ksport with custom rates of 16 front and rear into my brother's s2000 which already handles wonderful stock but going up from the stock rates of 5f and 4r i believe it was it is much more stable around the corners.
just felt like sharing and ranting......
#2
05-30-2010, 04:55 PM
What about lowering springs and adjustable shocks? My H&R Sport Springs/KYB AGX shocks set to "1" are much stiffer than stock, and set to "4" they are stiff as hell, they barely move.
I like my lowering springs, they handle great and aren't too stiff for a daily driver (and I can set the shocks stiffer if I so desire).
I like my lowering springs, they handle great and aren't too stiff for a daily driver (and I can set the shocks stiffer if I so desire).
Last edited by trustdestruction; 05-30-2010 at 05:03 PM.
#3
05-30-2010, 05:36 PM
the original/main purpose of shocks are to absorb the energy that the spring gains.
when a car hits a bump, the spring will compress and gain potential energy. this energy must be managed/dissipated otherwise the car will continue to bounce up and down forever. this is where the shock comes in. ideally, the spring controls how your car reacts when the wheel goes up into the wheel well and the shock controls how the wheel moves back down from the compressed position. the piston inside the shock is forced against the fluid inside the shock and the energy absorbed by the spring is transferred to the fluid, this is how we prevent the car from bouncing up and down forever
so ideally, there is a perfect spring and shock combo for any one road situation and only that one situation. for example, if the road was perfectly flat, then you really don't need a spring or a shock, which is why on a smooth or new racetrack, a really stiff setup performs wonderfully. on the other hand, if the surface is really bumpy, then you need the wheel/suspension setup to move up and down constantly separately from the vehicle's chassis otherwise the momentum of the chassis will be disrupted, thus you need a softer setup
the problem is, nowadays, the shock has started doing some of the springs job. as i said, ideally, the spring is the only thing that should restrict the upward movement of the wheel, but the shock actually does do some restriction. if you look at any shock dyno, the compression stroke has nearly no restriction while the rebound stroke has a lot of restriction. this allows the spring to absorb all the energy of compression.
^^ so in your case, even though the lowering spring has a really soft spring rate, you are stiffening up the dampening in order make the spring act as if it was actually stiffer. this is beneficial because you will always run into different road situations that require a different type of spring rate/dampening combo so adjustable dampening is very beneficial. i'd completely agree that your setup is much stiffer and better overall compared to stock, but on a racetrack, i'm confident that i can still run quicker times with a civic with stiffer rates like the hatch with 14 front and 12 rear.
when a car hits a bump, the spring will compress and gain potential energy. this energy must be managed/dissipated otherwise the car will continue to bounce up and down forever. this is where the shock comes in. ideally, the spring controls how your car reacts when the wheel goes up into the wheel well and the shock controls how the wheel moves back down from the compressed position. the piston inside the shock is forced against the fluid inside the shock and the energy absorbed by the spring is transferred to the fluid, this is how we prevent the car from bouncing up and down forever
so ideally, there is a perfect spring and shock combo for any one road situation and only that one situation. for example, if the road was perfectly flat, then you really don't need a spring or a shock, which is why on a smooth or new racetrack, a really stiff setup performs wonderfully. on the other hand, if the surface is really bumpy, then you need the wheel/suspension setup to move up and down constantly separately from the vehicle's chassis otherwise the momentum of the chassis will be disrupted, thus you need a softer setup
the problem is, nowadays, the shock has started doing some of the springs job. as i said, ideally, the spring is the only thing that should restrict the upward movement of the wheel, but the shock actually does do some restriction. if you look at any shock dyno, the compression stroke has nearly no restriction while the rebound stroke has a lot of restriction. this allows the spring to absorb all the energy of compression.
^^ so in your case, even though the lowering spring has a really soft spring rate, you are stiffening up the dampening in order make the spring act as if it was actually stiffer. this is beneficial because you will always run into different road situations that require a different type of spring rate/dampening combo so adjustable dampening is very beneficial. i'd completely agree that your setup is much stiffer and better overall compared to stock, but on a racetrack, i'm confident that i can still run quicker times with a civic with stiffer rates like the hatch with 14 front and 12 rear.
#4
05-30-2010, 05:43 PM
But I don't drive on a racetrack. That's my point.
You are saying people who use lowering springs "don't give a **** whether the car handles better". This simply isn't true. In my case, I don't need or want a coilover setup. I get the handling I desire with this spring/shock combination. I try to find a balance between comfort and handling because I daily drive my car and I care both how it performs and how comfortable it is.
You are saying people who use lowering springs "don't give a **** whether the car handles better". This simply isn't true. In my case, I don't need or want a coilover setup. I get the handling I desire with this spring/shock combination. I try to find a balance between comfort and handling because I daily drive my car and I care both how it performs and how comfortable it is.
#5
05-30-2010, 05:46 PM
touche, i may have been a little harsh with my wording. but the truth is, we all still dd with our racetrack setup and we're perfectly fine with it. just gotta watch for dips and potholes lol. which is what leads me to conclude that many people don't want the best possible handling setup for the same little money, but of course, i'm kinda pushing my words here too.
#7
05-30-2010, 05:51 PM
well from what i understand people spend about 200 on springs and 400 on shocks right? and i know that you can get ksport coils for 640 shipped so it seems pretty close to me. but i guess you can find cheaper spring and shock combo?
#8
05-30-2010, 05:52 PM
Right. I was unaware though that ksport coilovers are only $640 shipped. I know that other sets are more expensive.
#9
05-30-2010, 05:58 PM
yeah, when you go with other more expensive coilover setups, you're paying for better dampening adjustability. imo, the ksports are adequate since as i've mentioned the spring is the most important part that determine how your car handles, and we're all amateur racers here i'm assuming lol. and i also know that ksport offers custom revalving of their shock for your particular spring rate choice which from what i've heard gives you quality on par with higher end brands.
