Hi Guys,
A little background first...

I am researching which motor to buy: K20 vs B18. Yeah I know the K is better technologically, faster, cleaner, but...

I was talking to a friend yesterday about what the best swap is for an EJ8/EM1 chassis (99-00 Coupe). Taking into consideration handling as well as speed for daily driving, the occasional auto cross, and trips to the mountains.

The guy I was talking to was an engineer, and had a lot of experience building Civics. He said he had a lot of problems getting his K20 swapped Civic to handle correctly with any suspension. He said that the car was down right dangerous, and consequently he ended up crashing it. It sounded like a similar story to a H22 swapped Civic.

From his experience he said the best overall swap is the B18C Type R motor.

I know the K20a/z3/a2 weighs ~400-450 lbs with fluids according to Hybrid racing. Does anyone know the wet weight of a B18C?

I am curious as to what you guys think.

Thanks

 

That does make sense, considering once a K-swap is done, the engine is offset to one side. It all depends on what you want to do with it, are you going to spend most of your time at the strip? Autocross track? Street? If I were you, I would first figure out what I mainly want to do with the car, and then make a list of all the parts and how much money for each swap, and make your decision.

I have a buddy with a K24block with a K20 Type-S head in an EG hatch, and that car is flat out nasty. I've never been in it when he is hitting some fast turns, but in a straight line it's just insane for an engine with stock internals. Makes my B16 seem like a single cam non-vtec.

 

Right, like I was saying above I'm taking into consideration handling as well as speed for daily driving, the occasional auto cross, and trips up curvy mountain roads.

I'm more concerned about rolling down a cliff then I am about cost. I do a lot of driving on mountain roads in California.

What I want is balance. Speed and handling. Keeping the cost around $10k

 

I don't know what the weight on a k20 would be, but I can tell you the h22 weight issue is utter bulls**t coming from people with no first-hand experience with the engine. From a suspension standpoint, a good setup for a d-series should be perfectly adequate for an h-series. A guy on honda-tech did a weight comparison: D16 block vs. B16 block vs. H22 block. In the end the H22 block was about 30lbs heavier than the D16; add a transmission and everything and the total weight difference would be maybe 50lbs, and the weight is directly over the axles. People that boost single-cams are adding that much weight in the worst possible place: a foot in front of the axles.

I honestly doubt the k20 is much heavier or dimensionally larger than the h22, so I don't see the weight itself being a big problem. The engine itself sits closer to the passenger side, but I would think driver weight would offset that slightly. I'm wondering if the mounts put the engine ahead of the axles, though... that alone would wreak havoc on handling; the car would understeer like a **** and generally handle like an Abrams tank.


*ninja edit: I just found pictures of a K20-swapped Em1. The engine sits out way in front of the axles... the intake manifold almost touches the radiator support. I'd say that alone is the biggest problem with handling; all the weight out in the nose of the car. I doubt weight has much to do with it. Really, I don't think there's a cure for it. You could run high spring rates, stiff shocks, and a huge rear sway bar in back to try to induce oversteer, but I think the car's handling would still be tighter than an ugly chick in high school.

 

Reaper is like a damn book of information

 

My guess would be the engineer just set up his suspension wrong and probably doesn't know how to drive. First hint of this is because it sounds like he's blaming the cars handling for the accident...

A friend of mine that is an avid autoxer and owner of Karcepts(www.karcepts.com) has an EG hatch with a K20 in it. He's won countless of times in Street Modified and taken FTD numerous of times in various clubs. Even beating out last years National ProSolo SM champion car, an EG hatch that has a B18 Type-R motor in it. The car handles exceptionally well and he did drive it to and from events for quite some time before finally getting trailer for it. Clearly the setup for this car is much more outrageous since it's a purpose built competition car. I believe his setup is custom valved Koni's, Ground-Control coilovers with 750in/lbs(?) front springs and 1000in/lb rear springs along with an ASR 32mm hollow rear swaybar and a bunch of other misc. things.

These cars with those swaps can easily handle very well. Just do some research on what kind of setups and rates people are running.

But of course the best thing to make a car handle well is to have a good driver..

 

This is great info, thank you. For the K swap I planned on changing out the EJ8 subframe with a DC2 subframe. The hybrid racing techs said I could use Hybrid Racing Billet 96-00 Kswap Mounts which would move the motor back toward the firewall, it would also help with axle alignment problems that result from using an EG subframe.

I don't know if the dude from India could drive, or engineer his Civic. Which is why I posted on these forums. It would be a shame to put in the time to install a K and have it turn into a horrible driving experience.

Thanks again for your input