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Big Block with Big H

  #1  
Old 11-05-2011, 03:16 PM
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Talking Big Block with Big H

So my first swap was a success, minus the cam slippin 2 teeth during my initial start up, so I'm considering doing something more time consuming, expensive, with a lot more output being the end result!

I want to go much bigger, as I had an old 2.3cl and loved the torque a bigger 4 banger can produce.

I've always loved the G23 swap but it can be a headache and a half (f22/23 with h22 head).
And while I am still very much considering it, my other thought was an f22/f23 block, accord, with an f20b head, s2000. I've heard nothing but good things about the bottom ends on accord motors, and everyone knows how rev happy the f20 is!

The other motor combo thats on my mind is a b20 with a b16 head. It would have a lot less cc's but, hell, ITS A B SERIES!

My plan would be to put it into a CRX, n/a. No ideas for a trans yet.

Basicly my end result, I want a solid bottom end, a built and fully ported head, cammed, high compression, loads of bottom end torque and a nice high redline!
Any other suggestions?
 
  #2  
Old 11-06-2011, 06:12 PM
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get a good transmission. Type-R's got for around a grand, and they're the best straight from the factory.

OR build a trans. B16 1st and second, GSR 3rd and 4th with an LS fifth. (I THINK thats the combo everyone uses, I could be wrong. Google it.) I think this would be the best option if you went with the G23 swap. But obviously, you'll need an H2B swap kit. Go with the QSD kit. You'll have to prop your hood up, but its worth it for the extra ground clearance. Also, I've never heard of anyone using the head from an s2000. That for real? I thought they were different since they're mounted sideways...

I've read alot about b20 vtecs, and it just doesn't seem like that great of a swap. I read alot about people being really disappointed with the torque it ends up making.
 
  #3  
Old 11-06-2011, 06:13 PM
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get a good transmission. Type-R's got for around a grand, and they're the best straight from the factory.

OR build a trans. B16 1st and second, GSR 3rd and 4th with an LS fifth. (I THINK thats the combo everyone uses, I could be wrong. Google it.) I think this would be the best option if you went with the G23 swap. But obviously, you'll need an H2B swap kit. Go with the QSD kit. You'll have to prop your hood up, but its worth it for the extra ground clearance. Also, I've never heard of anyone using the head from an s2000. That for real? I thought they were different since they're mounted sideways...

I've read alot about b20 vtecs, and it just doesn't seem like that great of a swap. I read alot about people being really disappointed with the torque it ends up making.
 
  #4  
Old 11-08-2011, 09:28 AM
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ive just started looking in it, and seeing as its an F series i would imagine the main difference would be the intake manifold and the exhaust manifold, which could be custom build for a minimal cost. The other thing ive heard which may be much cheaper would be just take the f23s crank and rods and put them into an f20? But that defeats the point of using any f23 stuff (kinda) because the f23 has the cast iron sleeves.
Using an f20 block with f23 internals, the hardest part would be the mounts, getting a fwd trans bolted to it, and getting the correct axles to fit it. (I WAS reading all this f series stuff on an s2000 forum so i could be misinformed about putting it sideways
I was considering the type r trans, (top of the list) but if I go frankenstein with the motor, why not go frankenstein with the transmission! hah!

I'm honestly not 100% sure on the chassis I want to swap into. Ive been considering an old Fiat 500 or an old Mini. I would need stiff, STIIFFF front suspension to pull it off.
Or an early 90s del sol or crx are also on the list.

So much to think about! I've got time to save a bunch of cash, not sure on the budget yet, really need to decide on a chassis! All i know so far is i want VTEC, DOHC, 2200ccs or more, and an EXTREMELY light chassis.
 
  #5  
Old 11-08-2011, 10:49 AM
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I have never heard of S2000 parts being compatible, but probably because I haven't researched it at all The only S2k motor part I have ever seen being used elsewhere was the oil pump being used on a K24 block a buddy built.

My H22 is extremely nice and the torque is fun.... that is when it wants to run properly (issues..*headache coming to me just thinking of it*)

IMO, I wouldn't make it as complicated as you seem to be making it. H22a motor, B series transmission (LSD of course), wide sticky tires, traction bar(s), cams, 3" exhaust, Euro R intake manifold, or a K series IM, you should have more than enough power in a FWD car, especially since you are saying you want an extremely light chassis. If you go F22 block, you can install higher compression pistons without re-sleeving like you would have to do with the H22 block.

Maybe nitrous down the road could be added for that extra push on the track when needed?

Do w/e you would like, but the above is my dream set-up. With exception to nitrous. I don't like having that sort of thing in the car. I have a 5 year old, the last I need is to have a nitrous bottle in the car, or worse, mounted next to him on the back seat.
 
  #6  
Old 11-08-2011, 07:08 PM
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well ****, I didn't even know that the chassis was still in question. If you're planning on using an s2000 engine, why not just use the tranny and rear-end too? put it in something RWD and lightweight (Miata?). Hell, you could probably do it in a CRX too, but it would be alotta custom fab work since they're FWD.

If you have a big enough budget, anything is possible.
 
  #7  
Old 11-09-2011, 12:15 PM
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actually, speaking of rwd conversions i was reading in a honda tuning mag about an ek coupe someone took the whole valve train from an s2000 and did the rwd conversion. as well as seeing an ek coupe with a b18 turbo making 400hp but i believe he took a crv rear end and axles, changed out the gears and made it awd! it was doing 10.14s nastey stuff.
Yea im not sure. a stripped down crx is prolly gunna be my best option, shortest wheel base, relativly cheap, ect. i would love to go rwd but that just makes things pricier. i like that miata idea... damn i started this thread trying to narrow down ideas and more are coming available.
and i totally agree with you cvcrcr, the h22 seems to be the best value motor (k20/k24 swap being my ideal swap but that would skyrocket the budget). problem is the bottom end on an f22/f23 seems to be more solid and much more available, therefor cheaper.
I'm going to spend a lot of time today, researching, pricing things out and using the honda compression calculator to see what i should do.
So far, the best idea ive got is the ultimate honda frankenstein. k20 pistons, f23 block and bottom end, h22 head, and either a type r trans or a custom build with si 1-2, gsr3-4, and ls 5th like shandles was saying. I would love to compile all of the best parts from a bunch of different hondas and make, what i believe, is a naaastey N/a car. 250 hp is almost expected from a solid g23 build, so i know 300hp is obtainable with a g23 build, as long as i massage the head (hhahahah wow that sounds naughty!) correctly and put enough dough into it.
i'll figure everything out today! thanks again guys!
 
  #8  
Old 11-09-2011, 02:46 PM
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I believe I've figured out as much as possible and have a few questions, but first off.
The lightest car for this build would be a 92-95 Civic HB, the CX and VX were 200lbs lighter than the 89-91 crx and 200-400lbs lighter than the 92-95 del sol. And since I want to run OBD1 electronics, these options are the only cars I'm considering from here on out. (tryna keep it simple. xD) Only issue I may run into is if the car/trans i use is cable or hydro clutch.
Screw a frankenstein, why re-engineer Honda.

H22A1 block and head.
H2B- Si or Type R Trans
(starting from top to bottom)
The head will be decked, a serious port and polish job, 3/4 angle valve job, and polished combustion chambers.
stage 3 cams, titanium springs and retainers, new rocker arms, and 1mm larger intake valves, 1.25mm larger exhaust valves, probly gunna use titanium valves as well.
.5 overbore, not sure on pistons other than I want forged and im looking for a 12-12.5:1 compression and bigger valve reliefs for the oversized valves.

Now my major valvetrain questions (I need to subscribe to a prelude forum and see what theyre using), If I wanted to use a stroker crank and stronger rods, should I use an H23 crank or an F23 crank or should I just stick with the h22? I want it to be light weight of course, but strength is slightly more important than weight. (my other thought was maybe a k24 crank? i doubt anyones done it yet, if its even possible, still have to look up the specs and what not. I WISH I HAD ACCESS TO HOLD AND SEE THESE PARTS NOW! lol)
I also want to know about the rods i should use. Now obviously, the crank question will have a lot to do with the rods and pistons I end up using, but I was thinking H beam style rods or getting the H22a1 rods shot peined and cryo treated. any suggestions??
larger oil pump
As for Fuel management, walbro fuel pump, aem fuel regulator, larger fuel injectors (not sure on what size I should aim for if my goal is 300+ horses), Aem fuel rail, and most likely Hondata. would a p28 be the best ecu for this build, aside from a standalone?
ARP head studs
Large (maybe custom) IM and EM, high flow cat, 3 inch catback, larger TB, 3" intake.

Deffinitly going to be using Urathane bushings all over the place, replacing most of the suspension wear items (tie rod ends, ball joints, stab links, ect.) as well as new axles, Koni Yellows all around, Eibachs upfront, a rear disc conversion.
the only other question coming to mind has to do with the h2b kit. Ive seen it done, and it shifts everything to the drivers side by quite a bit, will power steering be possible with it shifted that far over? Then there's shift linkages. i'll have to see what I'm working with once its in the chassis or if the h2b kit company has suggestions.
So, a car thats 400lbs lighter than my current civic, 600-800 more cc's of displacement, twice as many cams, and (hopefully) are 2 1/2 times the output.
SOUNDS GOOD TO ME! xD
(the price tag is whats still looming, and going to give me nightmares. Should still be cheaper than an Sti or Evo and smoke both in a straight line!)

Don't you hate when you're tax refund checks already spent 6-8 months before you're due to get it! hah!

~peace~
~newbie
 

Last edited by Newbie2000ex; 11-09-2011 at 02:50 PM.
  #9  
Old 11-10-2011, 08:02 AM
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ideally what i want to do for my H22 build (whenever I end up doing it lol) is to get an F23 block and K20 pistons and do a NA G23 build. no boost, just raw Honda power. 2.3L displacement plus DOHC VTEC goodness. cast-iron cylinder walls in the F23 block sounds nice. i have heard that upgraded rods are a custom job though, which scares me.

if you want to save $1500, just use an F/H transmission W/ DA passenger axle, 90-93 accord intermediate shaft, and a custom passenger axle. explicitspeedperformance has a nice kit I've been eyeing up.




edit: lol i didn't read the posts above... at all. my bad.
 

Last edited by zerojett; 11-10-2011 at 08:05 AM.
  #10  
Old 11-10-2011, 08:10 AM
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If I am correct about this, you cannot install aftermarket pistons, or bore a H22 without re-sleeving due to the FRM cylinder walls. Thus the reason many people go with something else to build. I would look into this before making any moves.
 

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