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d16y8 best bang for the buck?

  #1  
Old 02-18-2009, 07:44 AM
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Default d16y8 best bang for the buck?

so i have my old 97 ex d16y8, all stock internals, 225k miles on it. I put a cold air intake on it, and a set of 4-2-1 headman headders on it...

so, whats my next best bang for the buck power upgrade?

cam?

cat-back?

cash is tight, so i need every $ to count...

this is my daily driver, so it needs to be reliable, not absolutely kill the fuel mileage, and make me go faster...

oh, i forgot to mention that about a year ago i blew the headgasket, so while i had the head off i had it redone at parks here in seguin. did a really nice job, all new guts(seals and bearings and stuff) and just re-used the valves and head. I'm just wondering if thoes new cam bearings would like a new cam.. or if i should just change them if i were to do a cam.

I'd love to hear any and all suggestions, all i ask is that with any suggestion, please give any pro's and con's to each option as you see them...
 

Last edited by project5k; 02-18-2009 at 07:50 AM.
  #2  
Old 02-18-2009, 09:43 AM
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catback to finish the exhaust...ftw
 
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:22 AM
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hmm ok, 1 vote for catback.. have you any suggestions on which ones to look at? I really dont need the noise, i'm really kinda going for the sleeper setup...(altho the CAI makes a bunch of cool noise when your hard on it at around 5krpm)

i was actually just sittn here read'n bout jrsc's and while thats outta the budget, if i had money, i think i'd go that way..
 
  #4  
Old 02-18-2009, 10:30 AM
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just get a nice one...GReddy, Megan, Magnaflow
 
  #5  
Old 02-18-2009, 04:29 PM
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finish the exhaust is a good idea... but if you can i would pick up a new intake... check on ebay they r not so bad in price... i bought a OBX intake for my 94 dx d15b7... its working out pretty desent...rap's the rpms up way faster.. other wise get some aftermarket injectors they help with hp but still get good gas milage...
 
  #6  
Old 02-18-2009, 06:17 PM
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Apexi WSP2 would probably be the best option for you. Nice and quite but a little louder than stock
 
  #7  
Old 02-18-2009, 06:49 PM
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you have a set of headers on an inline engine? please elaborate.


best bang for the buck if you want a lot more power is turbo
 
  #8  
Old 02-18-2009, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by trustdestruction View Post
you have a set of headers on an inline engine? please elaborate.
To the OP, if you dont understand what he is saying, he is let you know that our 4 bangers only have 1 header. So its header, not headers.
 
  #9  
Old 02-20-2009, 07:27 AM
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no, i understand he's playing semantics. I also know that he should know what i mean. Yes there is only one header.

i went looking for the apexi wsp2 catback, not too bad, and from what all i've read not too loud.. a little louder than stock is fine, i just dont want my car to sound like a bumble bee with its thing stuck in a screen door, like i said, i'm kinda going for the sleeper effect.

2 things that make me shy away from a turbo, price and reliability. yea i know that turbos are reliable, and that they got for thousands and thousands of miles, but i'm not sure if my stock internals will handle it... not to mention that turbos come on too late in my experience(too high in the rpm band) and i would like for my power to come on earlier.

So i went and looked at jrsc. cheaper than a complete turbo kit, i get to keep my AC, and the power comes on earlier than a turbo. and according to JR, at the normal 6lb boost, the stock internals should be just fine. much more and i'd have to go inside the engine.

I dont know what kinda #'s its making right now, but i would guess 100hp + or - some. what i'd really like is to end up somewhere between 150 and 200. thats really all i need. I dont think that the jrsc would quite get me there, but its promicing... just way outside my budget...

so i'm back to looking at catbacks, perhaps an intake, and maybe a cam.
 
  #10  
Old 02-20-2009, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by project5k View Post
no, i understand he's playing semantics. I also know that he should know what i mean. Yes there is only one header.
I'm just playing though, don't worry about it.
Lots of people say it and sometimes it gets so repetitive seeing it that it makes you go "ugh." It's like when people call VTEC "vtech" or "v-tech."

Originally Posted by project5k View Post
i went looking for the apexi wsp2 catback, not too bad, and from what all i've read not too loud.. a little louder than stock is fine, i just dont want my car to sound like a bumble bee with its thing stuck in a screen door, like i said, i'm kinda going for the sleeper effect.
it would make a nice sleeper exhaust. It won't be full-on sleeper though.
If you want the full effect you could get 2.25" piping from the cat back and then get it welded to your stock muffler.
Or, an RS★R Exmag will be more sleeper than the Apex-i WS2, but it costs $100 more. Totally worth it though IMO. If I could go back in time i'd have gotten the RS★R. The WS2 is still good though.

Originally Posted by project5k View Post
2 things that make me shy away from a turbo, price and reliability. yea i know that turbos are reliable, and that they got for thousands and thousands of miles, but i'm not sure if my stock internals will handle it... not to mention that turbos come on too late in my experience(too high in the rpm band) and i would like for my power to come on earlier.
If you stay at 200-225WHP and get a good tune, your engine will hold up just fine. The key is the tune.
If you get a small turbo (which is all you need to boost the maximum of stock internals), you will spool as early as 2500RPM depending on what you get.

Originally Posted by project5k View Post
So i went and looked at jrsc. cheaper than a complete turbo kit, i get to keep my AC, and the power comes on earlier than a turbo. and according to JR, at the normal 6lb boost, the stock internals should be just fine. much more and i'd have to go inside the engine.
It's not cheaper than the average complete turbo kit. Regardless, turbo setups should be pieced together yourself if you are trying to save money. You'll learn a lot of things along the way too, which will help you further understand how everything works.

Superchargers are less efficient than turbos. 6lbs of boost on a supercharger will give you a lot less power than 6lbs of boost on any sized turbo will.

copied from the sticky in the forced induction section (first one is the JRSC, second is the turbo):

"And of course, here's what I have personally experienced through dynosheets. Both dyno's were done with a 100% stock D16Y8 engine and very similar PSI.

JRSC 6psi pulley, rising to 8psi by redline.
146whp and 118wtq



T3T04e 57trim at 7psi
210whp and 167wtq"






https://www.hondacivicforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=68360

"Turbo or Supercharger? My Experiences-SovXietday

This question pops up a lot, in fact, more often than I care to continue to see.

"What is better, supercharger or turbocharger?"

First off, better is a very very broad term. You need to decide what you are going to use it for. A turbocharger may be better for some things, and a supercharger for others. It all depends on how you drive your car, where you drive your car, how often you drive your car, etc.

I have PERSONALLY owned and driven both a supercharged Honda Civic and a turbocharged Honda Civic, the following is my conclusion.

Supercharger

How it works - Superchargers are crank driven. The crank turns, which turns a belt, which turns a pulley attached to the nose of the supercharger, which rotates two rotors inside of the casing forcing air into an intake plenum and creating what we call "boost." Boost is just about instant in a supercharger, the intake plenum is fairly small in volume so it doesn't take long to pressurize and the rotors are turned directly by the crank. This also means that it takes torque to make power, the supercharger is extra load upon the engine.

IMO, this leads to one small problem, especially with a Honda. 1.6/1.8L of high revving efficiency does not make productable torque, that's why they're high revving in the first place. Since it takes torque to spin the supercharger, it's sapping what precious power the engine already has. Obviously, the supercharger makes up for it by pressurizing the intake on cue and therefore creating a lot more power, but it's still taking power to make power.

The number one biggest problem is cooling. With the compression of air happening 5" from the intake valves, where in the world would you place a cooling device? LHT introduced their intercoolers, which basically run a core of cold air through the intake plenum. This is a very expensive mod, about $2000+ after it's all said and done. By 10psi, the M45 unintercooled will be pushing almost 300* intake air temperatures, which if you haven't guessed, is extremely dangerous.

Superchargers are rumored to be "more reliable" as well. I disagree, the long complex pulley system of the supercharger is prone to malfunction. The Jackson Racing idler pullies have seizing issues, which on an SOHC setup will throw a belt and fail to rotate the alternator assembly. Basically the car becomes completely undrivable, and the idler pulleys are a serious pain in the *** to replace, excuse my language. The belts also tend to walk off the pulley systems, and when tightened to combat the issue, introduce exessive strain on the blower assembly.

Another issue, the aftermarket has never been very strong for them. Parts are expensive, and often yeild little results. They're also limited to psi they can push, like I said, by 10psi the M45 unintercooled becomes literally a flamethrower for an engine. M62 (Bseries) has seen 14 before that issue occurs.

You're probably asking, well why the hell do people buy these things then? There are less moving parts than a turbo, often times that can get confusing and often intimidating. It's bolt on, no custom fabrication or any of that. It's nice to have instant torque at the push of a pedal, the car is very predictable and a nice intercooled or low boost setup is GREAT for autox/road racing. For daily driven reasons, hills are conquerable in 5th gear with ease, and it's a lot easier to merge in and out of traffic. Oh, and it makes a really cool sound too!

Turbocharger

How it works - Exhaust gases are pushed through the exhaust side of the turbo. The gases push a turbine, much like wind would a windmill, and exit out of the car. The turbine is connected by a shaft across the "compressor" inlet. The compressor turbine spins drawing in air through the turbo, and expelling it into a length of tubing called "charge" piping. Often times this piping runs out infront of the car, through an intercooler, and back to the throttle body. Now, a turbocharger turbine can spin upwards of 70,000rpms, this sucks in a LOT of air, and it is all then compressed through the charge piping creating boost. As you can see, the amount of volume that a turbocharger setup has to pressurize is quite a bit more than what a supercharger has to pressurize, this is what causes that turbo "lag." It's basically the amount of time that it takes for the turbo to mash enough air into all of that tubing so that it is pressurized.

There are a lot of parts on a turbocharger. The turbo manifold, the turbo itself, wastegate, charge piping, intercooler, blow off valve, etc. Turbo's are also susceptable to things like boost spike. This normally happens when a wastegate is poorly placed and cannot relieve enough of the air to keep the turbo from creating more and more boost. If you're not tuned for something like this, it could easily destroy an engine.

"Turbo setups aren't reliable." WRONG. Are you going to tell me that Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Audi are making extremely unreliable cars to sell to the consumers? A turbo setup on a Honda can be just as reliable as any of the stock cars you see on the market today, you just need to spend the right money on the right parts. The most overlooked of which is tuning. A good fuel setup, a good tune, and spending the money on good reliable working parts will make your turbocharged Honda that much more reliable, and that much more fun to drive.

Turbochargers are also a lot easier to up the boost with. Swap out the wastegate spring, or simply just slap on a boost controller and boost away. Obviously this all needs correct tuning procedures, but it's not swapping out pulleys like the supercharger.

Aftermarket is also HUGE for turbocharged Honda's. Everything and anything you could ever want turbocharged is available, and often times can be had used for fairly cheap.

What about a vortech supercharger?

It's basically a turbocharger that instead of being driven by exhaust gas, is driven by your crank pulley. It's also a lot more expensive than both the JRSC or a nice turbocharger setup. So in my opinion, overpriced and no good.

So what is better? Supercharger or Turbocharger.

In my experienced opinion, for a Honda, turbochargers. Unfortunately the superchargers have to use our little torque to make boost, and although low end torque sounds great, the benefit is gone by 3K. Throw a T25 on your Honda, you'll make more power and you'll have it by 3K. Throw a T3/T4 on your Honda, and although you'll have to wait a bit longer for the fun, but you won't even be able to look back.

And of course, here's what I have personally experienced through dynosheets. Both dyno's were done with a 100% stock D16Y8 engine and very similar PSI.

JRSC 6psi pulley, rising to 8psi by redline.
146whp and 118wtq



T3T04e 57trim at 7psi
210whp and 167wtq



That is a 64whp and 49wtq INCREASE in power at virtually the same PSI level. Granted I am using a fairly large turbo, but it's clear just how much power the JRSC is sapping due to it's leeching qualities and tendency to superheat the intake air.

It seems clear to me that turbochargers are a superior technology, and when researched and tuned correctly will make significantly more power with great reliability. "
 
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