All righty, so the "Best Way to Stop a Manual?" thread got me thinking.

What's everyone's views on clutchless shifting?


Personally, if I'm just cruising, I almost never use the clutch once I'm in 2nd. Even if I do use the clutch, it's to put the car in gear; I pull it out of gear without the clutch.

My point of view is that if you do it properly, you're not wearing the transmission. Unloading the transmission and gently pulling it out of gear (I can do it with one finger) and waiting for the engine speed to match up with the wheel speed for the next gear, then putting it in gear is doing the same thing as using the clutch, but over a little more time. Keep in mind, I have a RWD car with the shifter mounted directly on top of the transmission, and the bottom section of said shifter acts directly on the shift forks.

So again, what's everyone's take on this?

(bring it on, I'm prepared to argue my point until I get off work )

 

yes, theoretically you can do it with absolutely no wear on the syncros, but reality is that's basically impossible. the point of the clutch is to take a heavy load(the whole rotating assembly in the engine) off so that the syncros have an easier time matching the speed of the gear and mainshaft.

i'd still minimize the number of times i do this

 

Perhaps I should have said no extra wear on the synchros. Done properly, you're going to wear them very little more than a normal shift would. That being said, if there's any resistance in the shifter compared to a "normal" shift, it's not being done correctly. Also, there's the big risk of grinding if you don't hit the gear just right, and doing the shift properly from start to finish takes a lot longer than a clutch shift.

Honestly, the biggest reason I do it is because I plan on getting a dogtooth gearbox (well, straight-cut 1-4 and a helical 5th), so I figure I might as well get used to it.

 

maybe you're a better driver than i am and just know when to pop the lever into the next gear. but when i do it i shift out into neutral and put slight pressure onto the next gear i need to go in. and when i sense that all restriction is gone, i pop it into the gear with no grinds or anything. but i'd assume that the small moment when go into gear even if there is no restriction there is still more wear on the syncro than if the clutch was engaged because it is still carrying the whole load of the engine in that small moment when you're getting into the next gear. but of course i can be wrong

 

touche, good sir

For the most part, I have the shift points memorized; on occasion, I do have to hold pressure on it, but for most of my shifts I hit it just right. That being said, most of the time if I don't hit the sweet spot the first time, I just use the clutch. Luckily, my gearing is fairly constant; for 1-4, the engine speed drops ~350rpm for each gear, and 5th gear is 500rpm.

As far as synchro wear, it's job isn't necessarily to take the load, it's to slow down the brake rings enough so the gears can mesh without grinding. When you hit the gear just right (no resistance), the rings and gears are moving at the same speed, just as if you used the clutch. That being said, I'm sure there still is slight wear, but it's not going to make enough of a difference to outright cause premature failure.

 

I do it all the time... even if I wanted not to do it I can't anymore...it's a damn habit.

 

ricers

 

You're just jealous because subies don't like being shifted without the clutch

 

When you're as awesome as I am, you don't need shortcuts



true story

 

Meh, I have a serious short-throw in the 'stang. Even if I use the clutch, if I really want to, I can be in the next gear and let out the clutch before the engine speed even has a chance to start dropping... and I restricted my IACV, so at closed throttle the engine speed drops like a rock

*ninja edit: just pointing it out, but clutch-less shifting actually takes more time than a "normal" shift since you have to rev-match perfectly. Therefore, no shortcuts there

*edit #2: you want to talk shortcuts, try clutch-less shifting a sportbike. No rev-matching required whatsoever... put some pressure upwards on the shift peg, get off the throttle a tiny bit, and you're in the next gear.