Alright,

Well, my car has been coming along nicely the past couple months. I have upgraded to a DOHC ZC. Running the ZC jdm headers and upgraded my exhaust to a RS*R full cat back. I got a pair of LS mesh rims with brand new falken tires last week in LA and i plan to polish the fronts up and paint the inside of the webbing black.

This leads me to the next step in upgrades: Suspension.

Right now I have stock suspension. Im pretty sure that the springs were cut before i bought my car and that all of my dampeners are ****ed.



I am looking for some advice on what to upgrade too. I want my car to be low, but not slammed. I also would like some better handling. I want to get into auto cross, but this car is also a daily driver.

Sway bars? what the hell do these do? I dont have any now, should I get them.

Camber kits? Why would I want this? would my camber be that far off with a small drop?

new LCA- I will probably get new lower control arms mostly cause I like the way they look and the fact that i have an 88 and my Lower control arms dont allow for much of a variety in after market coil overs.

So basically, I dont know where to start with this. Ideally, a koni yellow/ground control setup would be the best (from what I have read), but it a little out of my price range. Im probably looking to spend in the 1000 dollar price range.

If any one has any advice on anything feel free to post, Dealers would be good info to have as well.

Car: 88 civic hatchback (base model)

 

You don't really NEED sway bars if you have the right spring rates but since you said you will be daily driving, you probably want them. You really only need the rear swaybar, for a fwd car using double wishbone, a larger front bar only crates more understeer which you don't want. My suggestion, get the biggest rear swaybar you can find. I'm not sure about you generation but ASR, Suspension Techniques, Progress, and Hotchkins are popular for others.

You really don't need a camber kit. If you aren't tucking tire, I wouldn't worry about it. My fenders sit just barely 1 finger above the tires and I don't have a camber kit. I regularly check and rotate my tires and they last a fairly long time.

As for LCAs, they are not necessary unless you are utilizing the rear swaybar mounting points. Don't cheap out. I don't know what's out there for your generation but Function7, Skunk2, and HardRace are all good.

Koni and GC combo would be the best but since you're tight on money, the next best thing would be KYB AGX shocks with GC. I HIGHLY recommend getting the Ground Controls. High quality and you can get custom spring rates. Since it sounds like you're not going to really AutoX very much or seriously, I'd suggest 300in/lb springs for the front and 350in/lb springs for the rear(along with a very thick rear swaybar). Will make for a pretty solid handling car while still comfortable on the road. Not to mention full adjustability.

 

I was hoping you would chime in here.

They have the Suspension Technique sway bar for my year, that seems to be the go to one from what I have researched. That one is 22mm over the stock 15mm.

1 finger sounds perfect, thats about what my car is at right now, and I really like the way it looks.

Any online shops that carry these parts? I can always google it, but when it comes to car parts, A persons word goes a long way if you know what I mean.

 

i agree with almost everything he recommended.

but, if you're not comfortable with oversteer then i would not recommend the thickest rear swaybar you can get. this coupled with maybe some slight trailbraking and an inexperienced driver can lead to disaster. but, if you're confident, then go right ahead. i would, however, recommend that you do go with a thick rear sway but still get a sizeable front sway to make both ends planted.

ground control and koni is a tried and true setup, but i personally like extra stiff spring rates so i prefer to get ksports with custom spring rates. but, a majority of people, probably including you, like a ride that's a lot softer so his recommended rates should be fine (also, it's pound/inch not inch/pound).

good luck

 

A 300/350 with say a 22mm rear swaybar will induce oversteer but not snap oversteer. It'll still be controlable and more than likely push under heavy cornering.

If he wants stiff spring rates, the koni sports can go up to 600in/lb springs. In which case the car becomes more and more unbearable for street use. Plus, his car is very light, he does not need heavy springs at all. My first setup was 450/550 on my 5th gen ex coupe. It was a solid setup for AutoX and track. That setup would be probably more than he ever needs. For now atleast, 300/350 will be comfortable and easy to drive.

The great thing about Konis and Ground Control is it's easily completely rebuildable. If you wants very heavy springs(over 600), you can have the Koni Sports custom valved for any rate you choose. Ground Control sells a HUGE veriety of rates using Eibach springs for their coilovers. The KSports, IIRC, are made in either Taiwan or China in a generic factory(meaning other coilover brands like say Megan Racing are exactly the same..) Not exactly a popluar product, ANY of their products, in the Road race or AutoX communities.

 

this is my main point. i understand (from the looks of your sig lol) that you're a very experience autoxer and driver overall and much better than i am, but imo, most drivers out there today are simply unable to handle any oversteer at all, especially novice ones as i would assume the op is. for example, my ap1 is notorious for snap oversteer, but i wouldn't say that, i'd just say that it is more prone to oversteer; which when matched with a driver who doesn't know how to handle it, it ends up becoming snap oversteer. i've been to enough track days and drift events that i'm confident i can easily control my car (though this can be argued lol), but i wouldn't assume the same for the op, which is why i recommended that he at least get a front sway to even it out a bit.

but then again, this is just a matter of opinion, so if anything i'll agree to disagree with your opinion . i have koni and tein s-tech in my civic and i don't like it(though i blame it more on the teins lol) and ksports with really high rates on the s and i love it; even though i am comparing apples to orange, but as i said, this is just my opinion.

either way, i'm willing to say that the op should be fine with the setup you recommended, but it never hurts to be safe than sorry

good luck

edit: i just noticed that all the rates you recommended are biased to the rear, which just enforces my conclusion that you are very talented at handling oversteer and using it to your advantage, but if you look at most current spring rates on stock and after market suspension, the front is always biased since people don't know how to handle it. even the ap2 was changed significantly from the ap1 to have understeer instead of oversteer

 

I really appreciate both of your guys input. I am not a novice driver, i have had my share of windy roads and plenty of wet situations to know how my car drives with the back sliding out. I really think that what civicexracer's recommended is what I will go for. I have read plenty of his threads and responses on here, and he holds a very strong reputation for know his **** when it comes to suspension.

I am still in need a good place to buy said parts.

any opinions on shops?

 

I agree, and I definitely wouldn't suggest a setup that's unsafe for a novice esp on the street. This setup will oversteer, but not enough to the point where if making a heavy lift or trailbraking, it will cause the rear to swing out a lot, if at all. I'm sure it'll be easily controlable with what most would naturally do, counter steer. I know a lot of companies offer heavy front springs and lower rear springs to enduce understeer for safety, but an even or near even spring setup will still be fine. I drive my car daily and, when pushed hard and driven correctly, can/will oversteer a lot. BUT, even in spirited street driving, I never find the back end coming loose on me. I'm not doubting it can happen, I know I can make my car oversteer on the street if I want to. The likelyhood of it is very rare though.

S2K's are RWD too. A RWD car made to oversteer is WAY more unsafe to the average driver. I've seen it hundreds of times instructing novice drivers where, for what ever reason, they think more gas will correct oversteer. I guess it's all the drifting stuff seen nowadays...

Plus, I really do hope he makes it out to AutoX events. It'll only make him a better driver and understand his cars limits that much more and make it even more safer on the road.

Just doing a quick search from sites I know, Looks like you can get the KYB AGX and Ground-Control setup for around or under $850 shipped. The Ground-Controls with the Koni's looks around $1050 shipped.

For the Ground-Control sleeves I highly recommened getting directly from Ground-Control. For one it's probably the cheapest place to order them from. Also, their customer service is top notch from what I, and friends, have experienced. I'll pay the extra couple bucks just because I know I'll be taken care of. The other thing is I suggest ordering by phone so you can order the rates I suggested. I don't think you can order custom rates from their direct vehicle application listed. Tell them what shocks you are using too.

As for the KYB AGX's, atleast in my quick search, the cheapest I found them at is $436(+shipping) from www.modacar.com. I don't have experience with them so I cannot say much about that site other than it's been around for a while and seems legit.

For the Koni's, the cheapest I've found are from $569(+shipping) from www.weaksauceparts.com. They are a well know and legit site from what I know.

Hope that helps!

 

I found them for 248 for shocks and 284 for ground controls from no limit racing. They had a ground control thread on honda tech and im pretty sure they sell custom spring rates, just waiting to hear back from them. Summit racing has the sway bar for like 150 and then i just need to find a deal on some LCAs.

What about a energy suspension bushing kit? im sure most of my bushings are pretty old.

the other thing was strut bars. How helpful are those?

 

ES stuff is good. The thing with the bushing kit is that you may not use all of them, like the rear LCA bushings if you get new LCAs. Just don't use their trailing arm bushings, they are known for binding and egging out after a short amount of time. Some say they even handle worse than stock. Not to mention they are a MAJOR pita to install. I personally sold mine when I got the kit and installed fresh OEM trailing arm bushings.

Strut bars do very little. I'd just get them from eBay.