MY CAR IS POSSESSED!! I ought to name it "Christine". If I don't find a cliff to push it off of first, that is.

It's a 1991 Civic DX HB, 136K miles, automatic transmission. If I can't get this fixed, I think I'm going to have to set it on fire. Literally. In the past month, it's had 3 sessions at 3 mechanics costing $1500+ I just don't have, and now it's broken AGAIN. To make it worse, I have to go out of town with it for 2 weeks on Monday. Financially this car has pretty much destroyed us and buying a new or used one's really not possible... I have to get it fixed, pretty much. Maybe you folks can solve the mystery for good.

The problem now: It fires and runs when cranked (well, it WAS firing earlier today) but when you move the key from the "Crank" position to the "run" position, it dies. This morning, it took several tries before it would start (cranks fine, wouldn't fire up... this has happened intermittently... every few months... for 3 years at least.) It did start up though, and I got to work. (This has happened 4 times in the week since the last repair.) I was going to lunch, started it up, sat idling for about 3 minutes (phone call) and when I started to back out, it died. Then it would crank, the engine would "catch" and run (seemingly normally) while I had the key turned to engage the starter (it would rev up and all) but it died when the key was released back to the normal driving position. The CEL is NOT on. When the starter is applied, the computer blinks once when it starts to crank, then blinks 16 times, and then repeats the 16 blinks (this is the code for "fuel injector", though there's nothing blinking on the computer except when the starter is turning). I don't know if the computer code counts under this condition.

Here is the history of repairs JUST IN THE PAST MONTH... it had few major problems before that:

First mechanic:

* Car started steaming on way home from work, temp shot WAY up. Got home, refilled radiator (saw big leak on top.) A day or two later, car died on way home (temp OK, car kept dying on me while driving, would only start intermittently). Limped to mechanic, he did following:

* Replaced leaking radiator & radiator hoses
* Replaced cracked distributor cap
* Replaced distributor rotor
* Found leaking valve cover gasket, covering plugs in oil... not replaced as I didn't have $$ and it was something we could live with for a little while.

1 week later, it just died suddenly upon arriving home and wouldn't restart.

Second mechanic (near home... had to tow it there with rope):

* Replaced broken timing belt (probably original one)
* Replaced water pump
* Replaced other belts

Upon pickup from mechanic, the CEL light was on (first time I'd ever seen it) and it ran really rough. But, the brake light was off (brake light was intermittently on ever since a brake job, but no brake leaks or problems so believed it was a flaky sensor or wire...) Was after hours, HAD to use car, so took it home. Took it back, they looked at it but it still wasn't really right, they said it coudl be driven if I could deal with it not accelerating very well. They left the carpet pulled up and I "discovered" the computer and it was blinking a code 8 (TDC Sensor).

Third mechanic (a few days later) - this guy seemed to have a clue:

* Replaced distributor completely
* Adjusted/set timing
* "Cleaned" spark plug wires (I assume he meant he cleaned any gunk off the ends)
* Replaced the spark plugs
* Reset the computer (no more CEL or brake light!)

The car ran GREAT... for 3 days.

It drove OK one morning, then after sitting for about an hour, it cranked OK but not start. After a 3-minute break (went and got dad-in-law who pointed me to last mechanic) it did start up OK. Drove OK a few days this week (going8 miles to/from work), with a few intermittent starting problems. Last night, it did seem to "sag" or "bog down" a bit on the way home, but didn't die. This morning, it took 2-3 minutes before it would start, but drove to work OK. Then at lunch, boom... the problems described at the top of this post. My wife got so pissed she put a decent dent in the side with her foot... I felt like doing the same. (It's a dented beater so I guess I can't be too mad about that...)

What I did to it today:

* Replaced the main relay with a new unit (no change in situation)... fortunately AutoZone took it back. (What sorry bastard decided to mount the relay THERE anyway?) This was suggested by Mechanic #3.
* Disconnected the wires going into the key assembly... no obvious broken connections or wires
* Loosened the fuel line going into the injector unit enough to see fuel come out (didn't try this while starting)
* I could hear a faint, high-pitched whine right before the starter kicked so I believe the fuel pump is working, though my boss got under the car and didn't hear it when it was cranked.
* Checked the air filter... it's not new, but not too bad either.
* Wiggled the battery connectors by hand... seem to be tight and the starter turns well, don't think that's it.

The battery was replaced about 4-6 months ago and the starter cranks strongly. The car has about 2/3 of a tank of fuel. I thought it could be the ignition switch, but that's unavailable from the local car shops so I wanna be really sure that's likely to be it before having to go dig around in scrapyards (and miss even more work time).

Well, I'm prety desperate for an answer now as the car is stuck at work, undriveable (unless it miraculously starts up tomorrow and keeps running), and mechanic #3 (the one I trust) is 30 miles away and it's a BIG deal to get it towed down there. I cringe to think of spending another dime on a sinking ship but I don't have much of a choice... have to have a car and can't afford a neweer one.

What am I missing here? Surely someone has an idea?

Thanks in advance for any help anyone has to offer. BTW I'm a car-repair novice, but I'll try whatever I can. I'm in central Florida and it's been in teh 70s-80s lately, if temperature is a factor.

-Mike

 

Wow that is some story, hard to imagine all of this happened to a honda even with that mileage. So the battery, alternator, stater are all good. You turn it and just hear a clicking noise the engine doesn't turn at all.......hmmm. Did you ever get the valve cover gasket fixed? Oil could be getting into a lot of components messing everything up. Check the spark plugs lately again? Any oil getting into the coolant?

At this time of night you won't get too much feedback but tomorrow you should get some good help getting to the root of the problem.

 

No, when it turns over, it cranks normally and the engine even catches and fires up... at least it was doing that... until the key is released back to the normal "driving" position when it dies. The valve cover gasket has not been fixed... but why would that prevent it from running, but allow it to start?

Oh yeah, my wife looked into the radiator and said there wasn't any oil visible. When it started (while I was holding the starter on) I was able to rev it up pretty high (floored it) and that did produce a cloud of blue oil-smelling smoke, but otherwise no smoke was noticeable at more normal engine speeds. It didn't sound like it was skipping or missing on any cylinders or anything like that.

 

Replaced the ignition switch today with a new unit, that wasn't it. A friend at work helped out and we pulled the fuel line, NO fuel output while starting, but we confirmed we had spark and we got a kick once after putting in a little starter spray. I confirmed there's voltageat the fuel pump connector under the seat (about 7-10 volts) so I think it's pretty sure now that the pump is what's dead... my friend got under the car and wailed away at it with a 4x4 but it never started whirring and we never got fuel or a startup. The mechanic I called (# 3 above) was very helpful and sympathetic and said that you can swap the fuel pump via a hatch under the rear seat. Unfortunately, the *(#&$(*& Haynes manual says "remove the rear seat" to swap the pump (it also says to drop the tank, which I definitely can't do) but doesn't say a word about HOW to remove the seat, and I can't for the life of me figure it out. I actually got a hacksaw and had a go at one of the wire clips holding the front edge down... that didn't last long, no progress and my arm really hurt.

So... anyone able to tell me how to remove the rear seat from a 91 Civic DX HB? If I can't finish this tomorrow afternoon, I'm in deep doo-doo! (Also, can anyone reconfirm that I really don't have to jack the car and drop the tank to get the pump swapped?)

Thanks again!

 

Well, just to complete this thread, figured out how to remove the rear seat (a bolt holds a wire hook at the back of the seat, accessed by pushing the base of the seat back forward near the middle, a little to the left side) and then it tilts up and out.

Well, despite the info I found in other posts and was told, you can NOT access the fuel pump on a 91 DX via a hatch under the seat. The fuel level sender has a hatch, and the fuel pump connector is under the seat, but you DO have to drop the tank to get to the fuel pump. Why they made one thing so easy to change and the more critical part so involved to get to, I can only guess... I suppose they just want their dealers to get more work. So no car for me for a month or so. Damn. BTW the pump is about $130 at AutoZone (not that it's doing me any good for the moment.)

So much for "Honda reliability"...

 

Not everyone gets lucky out there, could there be something in your fuel tank clogging the fuel line? I know of some mean people who throw dollar bills in gas tanks and you have to get a brand new one because you can't flush it out. Maybe I'm just talking out of my ***, who knows lol just trying to throw some ideas out there

 

damn man that sux, my old 91 hb dx has been through three owners now and has 220,000 on it...u must have got a lemon.[:@]