Bang for Buck
#1
10-09-2009, 12:50 PM
Bang for Buck
Ok, so I've had my 2000 civic se auto for 3 months now. It's very clear the auto has got to go. I want to dump the D16Y7 for something a little more fun. I read almost every post on this forum and I'm still not sure what to do as far as a swap is concerned. I'm looking for 150-175whp and I dont wanna go over 3 grand with tranny. Any advice?
#2
10-09-2009, 12:54 PM
The B series swap is what I was told. Here is a link to some engines. http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/auto...y=35&query=271
Here is some more information that might help.
6th Generation
1. B18C1: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired.
2. B16A2: Completely bolt in swap, VTEC needs to be wired.
3. B16A3: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired, OBD Conversion.
4. B18C5: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired.
5. B18B1: Completely bolt-in swap.
6. B16B: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired.
7. H22A: Mount kit required, Hasport shift linkage, VTEC needs to be wired.
8. D16Z6: Completely bolt-in, OBD conversion, VTEC needs to be wired.
9. D16Y8: Completely bolt-in, VTEC needs to be wired.
The D16Z6 is another inexpensive option that can be installed without much trouble. This motor will bolt right in and can be found for around 600-800 dollars. The positive aspects of this engine include VTEC, availability, and price. Usually with this setup the d16 long block is mated with a cable d-series transmission. There are several options with the ECU. Either the D16Z ECU is used, or the stock ECU is retained and a VTEC controller added. *Remember, all 4th Generation Honda's use cable transmissions while 5th and 6th Generation Honda's use hydraulic transmissions.
The B16A2/3 is the most popular swap and probably yields the best power for the cost. First generation B16's usually cost around 1200-1500 minus the cost of engine mounts. It is important to note that this engine will NOT bolt directly into a 4th generation engine bay. Aftermarket engine mounts from Hasport, Place Racing or self-fabricated mounts will need to be used. The first generation B16 also came stock with a cable transmission and for the complete swap the axles, intermediate shaft, and ECU will be needed.
The B16B is a Japanese Domestic Motor and isn't very popular because of its smaller displacement and price tag. This engine was found in 1998 Civic Type R's and has a design similar to the B18C5. Its intake cam is slightly more aggressive and its compression is slightly higher. However, because of this engine's smaller displacement there it offers less torque. Therefore this engine offers little improvement over a B18C1 and when comparing price tags this engine is quickly dismissed. This engine comes with the same transmission as the ITR and has LSD. If the B16B can be purchased for less than 4000 it would be a great deal. Unfortunately its nearly impossible to find this engine that cheap and its recommended that a B16/B18 is purchased instead.
The B18C1 came in USDM Acura Integra GSR's between the years of 1994-2001. This engine has 170 horsepower and 128lbs of torque, which makes for a very fast daily driven car. For this swap the shift linkage, axles, and ECU will all be needed. Another important aspect of this swap that should be considered is the year of the engine. Post 1995 engines are all OBD2 and this can make for an easier swap. However, its also important to realize that switching a car from OBD1 and OBD2 or vice versa is not as complicated as it sounds. Skunk2 and other companies even make a conversion harness that makes the wiring completely push and plug.
The B18C5 came standard in 1997-2001 Integra Type R's. These engines are the highest performance B-series engine offered in the United States and carry the largest price tag. Compared a B18C1 these engines have higher performance camshafts, a lighter valve train and higher compression. In addition its intake manifold is designed for high-end horsepower, which does sacrifice some low-end torque. All of this amounts to 195 horsepower and 128 lbs of torque. The ITR transmission is the most highly sought after transmission coming standard with LSD and having the best final drive. Also, due to the age of these motors and their capability their price ranges between 4600 and 5200.
The H22A is found in Prelude VTEC's and JDM Accord's. This engine comes with 190-220 horsepower and is not considered a great candidate for Civic's and Integra's because of its larger size and weight. Hasport and other companies are making a mount kit for this engine but the geometry of the car is changed dramatically. (The engine and transmission are 85lbs heavier than a GSR motor) However, with the right suspension and some weight reduction the front end can be lightened to the point where the car will be drivable. The benefit's from this engine is its increased low end torque. Unfortunately its very difficult to retain air conditioning and room in the engine bay is at a minimum. Plus, the H-series engines have a poor rod/stroke ratio which translates into less revving capability and less potential with high end horsepower. Overall, this swap is not recommended although it can be done.
Here is some more information that might help.
6th Generation
1. B18C1: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired.
2. B16A2: Completely bolt in swap, VTEC needs to be wired.
3. B16A3: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired, OBD Conversion.
4. B18C5: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired.
5. B18B1: Completely bolt-in swap.
6. B16B: Completely bolt-in swap, VTEC needs to be wired.
7. H22A: Mount kit required, Hasport shift linkage, VTEC needs to be wired.
8. D16Z6: Completely bolt-in, OBD conversion, VTEC needs to be wired.
9. D16Y8: Completely bolt-in, VTEC needs to be wired.
The D16Z6 is another inexpensive option that can be installed without much trouble. This motor will bolt right in and can be found for around 600-800 dollars. The positive aspects of this engine include VTEC, availability, and price. Usually with this setup the d16 long block is mated with a cable d-series transmission. There are several options with the ECU. Either the D16Z ECU is used, or the stock ECU is retained and a VTEC controller added. *Remember, all 4th Generation Honda's use cable transmissions while 5th and 6th Generation Honda's use hydraulic transmissions.
The B16A2/3 is the most popular swap and probably yields the best power for the cost. First generation B16's usually cost around 1200-1500 minus the cost of engine mounts. It is important to note that this engine will NOT bolt directly into a 4th generation engine bay. Aftermarket engine mounts from Hasport, Place Racing or self-fabricated mounts will need to be used. The first generation B16 also came stock with a cable transmission and for the complete swap the axles, intermediate shaft, and ECU will be needed.
The B16B is a Japanese Domestic Motor and isn't very popular because of its smaller displacement and price tag. This engine was found in 1998 Civic Type R's and has a design similar to the B18C5. Its intake cam is slightly more aggressive and its compression is slightly higher. However, because of this engine's smaller displacement there it offers less torque. Therefore this engine offers little improvement over a B18C1 and when comparing price tags this engine is quickly dismissed. This engine comes with the same transmission as the ITR and has LSD. If the B16B can be purchased for less than 4000 it would be a great deal. Unfortunately its nearly impossible to find this engine that cheap and its recommended that a B16/B18 is purchased instead.
The B18C1 came in USDM Acura Integra GSR's between the years of 1994-2001. This engine has 170 horsepower and 128lbs of torque, which makes for a very fast daily driven car. For this swap the shift linkage, axles, and ECU will all be needed. Another important aspect of this swap that should be considered is the year of the engine. Post 1995 engines are all OBD2 and this can make for an easier swap. However, its also important to realize that switching a car from OBD1 and OBD2 or vice versa is not as complicated as it sounds. Skunk2 and other companies even make a conversion harness that makes the wiring completely push and plug.
The B18C5 came standard in 1997-2001 Integra Type R's. These engines are the highest performance B-series engine offered in the United States and carry the largest price tag. Compared a B18C1 these engines have higher performance camshafts, a lighter valve train and higher compression. In addition its intake manifold is designed for high-end horsepower, which does sacrifice some low-end torque. All of this amounts to 195 horsepower and 128 lbs of torque. The ITR transmission is the most highly sought after transmission coming standard with LSD and having the best final drive. Also, due to the age of these motors and their capability their price ranges between 4600 and 5200.
The H22A is found in Prelude VTEC's and JDM Accord's. This engine comes with 190-220 horsepower and is not considered a great candidate for Civic's and Integra's because of its larger size and weight. Hasport and other companies are making a mount kit for this engine but the geometry of the car is changed dramatically. (The engine and transmission are 85lbs heavier than a GSR motor) However, with the right suspension and some weight reduction the front end can be lightened to the point where the car will be drivable. The benefit's from this engine is its increased low end torque. Unfortunately its very difficult to retain air conditioning and room in the engine bay is at a minimum. Plus, the H-series engines have a poor rod/stroke ratio which translates into less revving capability and less potential with high end horsepower. Overall, this swap is not recommended although it can be done.
Last edited by roadliner; 10-09-2009 at 12:57 PM.
#3
10-09-2009, 04:22 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brownsburg, IN 46112
Posts: 11,203
well since you have a auto... easiest way to get more performance feel is ditch the auto for a 5speed manual.. 
#6
10-09-2009, 10:37 PM
Are you talking about keeping it under 3 grand for the whole build or are you going to do a full engine swap and that's it. For a long-block that includes the transmission and ECU, check junkyards if you've ever rebuilt an engine before and know what your doing. I would go with the D16Z6 if your not worried about DOHC. However if your going with the junkyard approach make sure the block and head aren't cracked or the timing belt broke or anything. You don't want to deal with bent valves and a cracked block or head. A lot of machining has to be done. There's always the option of going non VTEC DOHC and adding Bolt-ons such as new cams, A new Intake manifold and CAI or Short Ram Intake, A new throttle body, Headers and Exhaust System and a remap of the ECU should put you at least at 175 Horses depending on the engine choice. You could do without the aftermarket cams and still make at least 175 hp if tuned properly. Skunk2 makes a majority of the bolt-ons I just listed and are a phenomenal company although you probably know that.
Last edited by project91; 10-09-2009 at 11:02 PM.
#7
10-10-2009, 01:22 AM
D16Z6 swap and the GReddy turbo kit will leave you probably right under $3000 after tune and will achieve your goal. I don't know of an engine swap that will give you 150 WHP alone for under $3000.
B is overrated
B is overrated
#8
10-10-2009, 07:13 AM
^ That.
Also, there is no engine swap that can be done for $3k (unless you find some crazy deals) that puts you in the 150-175whp range. A B16 is $3k and puts you around 135-140whp. A B18b will be in the same price range and puts you around 120whp. A B18c1 will be around $4k, and you'll be around 150whp. An H22 will put you around 170whp for about $4k.
Also, the B-series is horribly overrated and the only reason I see to swap to one is if you want to boost and are shooting for 500+whp.
Going with what trust said, you could swap in a d16z6 or a d16y8 and manual transmission, buy a turbo kit, and be sitting at around 200whp for ~$3k.
Also, there is no engine swap that can be done for $3k (unless you find some crazy deals) that puts you in the 150-175whp range. A B16 is $3k and puts you around 135-140whp. A B18b will be in the same price range and puts you around 120whp. A B18c1 will be around $4k, and you'll be around 150whp. An H22 will put you around 170whp for about $4k.
Also, the B-series is horribly overrated and the only reason I see to swap to one is if you want to boost and are shooting for 500+whp.
Going with what trust said, you could swap in a d16z6 or a d16y8 and manual transmission, buy a turbo kit, and be sitting at around 200whp for ~$3k.
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